[Formula jg]

I could make this a very long story but will spare us all and just get to the question.

I have the tubular DSE Tie Rod Adjusters, which direction would I need to turn each to reduce the toe-in (current total toe-in is 0.30*)?

Thanks.

[JLMounce]

The inner tie rod should be a left hand thread with the outer a right hand thread. If you have too much toe in, the tie rods need to be adjusted towards each other, to shorten the distance between them. This assumes you have a standard rear steer GM steering setup.. If looking at the tire rod adjuster from the wheel, inward to the center of the car, your direction is left. If you're under the car, roll the adjuster towards the front of the car.

For street driving and where a crown may be present on the car, 1/16th" toe in, with slightly more on the passenger side is usually called for. 0* for a more performance oriented alignment. 1/16th" toe out for spirited driver, auto-x etc.

This all assumes you're utilizing the common GM steering components. If it's all after market, consult the manufacturer as it's possible it changed.

[Formula jg]

I should have clarified in my post this is for a '79 Formula with DSE upper/lower tubular contronl arms.

JLMounce, do these instructions apply to both left and right side tie rod adjustments?

Also, you mentioned using the toe setting for road crown compensation but shouldn't the road crown be compensated by setting the right side (passenger) caster slightly more positive than the left side (driver) caster setting?

[JLMounce]

Yes caster side to side will be different for a road crown. Most people don't have the tools to properly adjust caster and you didn't mention it, so I left it out.

Sorry, guess I missed on the driver/passenger side thing. In my head I was looking at the system from the driver's side. The passenger side you would still turn the sleeve to the left, but because it's on the opposite side of the car, left becomes towards the rear instead of the front of the vehicle.

[Formula jg]

Thank you very much for clarifying left and right.

In the interest of sparing my back and knees because I’ll be working on the ground making these adjustments. If I’m looking to reduce the toe-in by approx. 1/16” per side how much of an adjuster turn should I be expecting to work with (1/4, 1/2, full+)?

[JLMounce]

the literature I’ve found suggests a 18 thread count bolt would move something like .056” per full turn. I think you would need to double that since you’re moving two rods closer or further apart simultaniously.

If you’re doing it yourself I like the string around the rear wheels method to make sure you get it where you need. If you’re in a position that you need to kind of guess at it, you may be better off taking the car to an alignment shop.

Tires are expensive. A quality alignment will usually pay for itself in tire life.

[Formula jg]

I'll start with 1 full turn and see where it ends up.

When I completed the new suspension I used the string for toe and Iphone App. for camber and caster. Then it took some time to find a relatively local shop that had a rack that we could get the car on (it has a very low stance). The shop readjusted toe only, they didn't want to touch camber and caster which to my surprise was extremely close to what their high tech setup was reading. A few days later I started looking at the alignment report more closely and noticed the toe measurement was in degrees (0.30*) and I didn't know what that was in inches. After searching, asking, posting multiple times could not get an answer as to the inch conversion and whether that was toe-in or toe-out on the report (the shop was no help either).

This prompted me to redo the alignment at home but this time using the Tenhulzen camber/caster/toe plates. The packaging came with a conversion chart and that's how I now know that 0.30* = 3/16" which is more than I want for toe-in (I'm not returning to this shop again). Now the only good thing is that the current toe is set in equally on both sides (I presume this since the shop had it all digitally lined up and square), therefore and correct me if this is wrong but as long as I turn the left and right tie rod adjusters equally then I should end up with both sides toed equally, is my thinking right?

[Formula jg]

Correction to my previous post #7 the inch equalevent for 0.30*=1/8”.

Measuring it with the toe plates I get the same 1/8” Total Toe-in, so not as extreme as I first calculated.

I want to increase my right (pass) Caster and Camber so what happens to toe if the shim is placed on the bolt nearest firewall only as opposed to adding shim to both control arm bolts?

[64speed]

Don’t feel bad I rebuilt my front end and now my driver and passenger tire look like an unfolded sandwich making it a real bitch to push. Gonna have to suck it up and tow it to be properly aligned even though it’s only a shell.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Originally Posted by 64speed

Don’t feel bad I rebuilt my front end and now my driver and passenger tire look like an unfolded sandwich making it a real bitch to push. Gonna have to suck it up and tow it to be properly aligned even though it’s only a shell.

Be prepared to do a second alignment once you have the motor in it and actual ride height is established.

[Formula jg]

Update and correction.
I either misunderstood or was misinformed regarding which way to turn tie rod adjuster to move the tie outward.
Here is the correct way:

Driver side-viewed from wheel turn adjuster sleave right. If viewed from under car roll adjuster sleave toward rear of car.

Pas side-viewed from wheel turn adjuster sleave left. If viewed from under car roll adjuster sleave toward front of car.

Hopefully this will spare someone the huge frustration that results from doing it the opposite direction.

[AG]

Is the toe in 0.030"? Toe in should be 1/16".

[Geoff]

Toe in is not critical, often see quoted specs such as 0 - 1/8" or 0 - 1/16".
Also depends on condition of front end components. New b/joints, bushes, tie rods etc you could run it on the loose side. Worn components, run it tighter.

[Formula jg]

The shop set total toe-in at 0.30*(degrees) which is approx. 1/8”.

[Formula jg]

Front suspension is all new except for steering linkage compents. Is there a way to measure for wear on the linkage components?

[Sirrotica]

You can measure wear on the ball joint with a dial indicator. In PA as a state inspection mechanic (as I was) you were required to measure the ball joints and there is a table with allowed play that was a pass/fail for those components. Tie rods there was never any table because it would be next to impossible to set up a dial indictor to measure 2 types of play, lateral (up and down), and axial (side to side). The same is true for king pin type suspensions, there was a maximum amount of play allowed at the outer edge of the tire, 1/4 inch.

As independent suspension was refined the ball joint manufacturers had ball joint wear indicators that consisted of a raised area around the grease fitting. As the ball joint wears this raised area recedes and when it becomes flush with the area next to it, it is deemed in need of replacement.

Any time you could feel any play in a tie rod the car was failed for state inspection, there is no way to hold a toe in adjustment with loose tie rods. The easiest way to check is to raise on wheel off the ground and put your knees against the edge of the tire and see if you feel any play in the steering linkage. It may take two people at this stage to find out which tie rod is loose one to move the tire/wheel assembly, and one to watch where the play is coming from.

[Formula jg]

All steering components seem tight with no play.

If I wanted alignment settings that would compensate for road crown is that accomplished with increased caster or camber or both of those settings on the passenger side?

[TAtech]

Camber should be set at 0-.25* on both sides, I usually set caster .5* higher on right side to compensate for road crown, set the toe at 1/16"-3/32" for best tire wear.

[Formula jg]

I reset alignment as follows:
Caster: Left 5.2; Right 5.7
Camber: Left -0.5; Right -0.8
Total Toe-In: 1/16"

Not a lot of seat time with these settings however the little road testing I've done so far is telling me this is acceptable to me for my driving habits.