[mygyver]

I pull oil pan off of my 66 326 motor. Pick up screen tube has been Brazed to pump body should I be alarmed ?

[hurryinhoosier62]

No. Brazing is acceptable.

[steve25]

All's well as long as it's been done so in the right position.

[lust4speed]

The attached photo is cause for alarm. We can argue about whether brazing, welding, or set screws are better, but they all prevent finding this when the pan is dropped.

[steve25]

Fortunately A stock Pontiac pump body itself is already sitting in 2 inches of oil and does not have to suck oil up thru a pickup tube, but with some other brands loosing the pickup screen means zippo for oil pressure and a roasted bottom end!

[Cliff R]

Brazing and welding are risky ways of attaching the pick-up tube to the pump body. I know, I know engine "builders" do this all the time, but how many get back into those engines at a later date to see if it's still attached?

I tried that deal one time and a few years later went back into that engine (full race) to freshen it up and found the pick-up had broke a BIG chunk of material off the pump and it was all laying in the bottom of the pan.

For the stock pick-up tubes I prefer to gently provide a flat surface and drill/tap for a hardened machine screw. It's a little bit of a PITA to remove the pump cover and blow out all the chips, but it's a very easy and effective way to secure the tube with minimal intrusion of the parts involved.

For the deeper sump pick-ups I like to make a steel strap going over to one of the pump cover bolts. The strap is MIG welded to the tube and since they are similar materials it's NEVER coming loose for any reason, pic below.......Cliff

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Brazing and welding are risky ways of attaching the pick-up tube to the pump body. I know, I know engine "builders" do this all the time, but how many get back into those engines at a later date to see if it's still attached?

I tried that deal one time and a few years later went back into that engine (full race) to freshen it up and found the pick-up had broke a BIG chunk of material off the pump and it was all laying in the bottom of the pan.

For the stock pick-up tubes I prefer to gently provide a flat surface and drill/tap for a hardened machine screw. It's a little bit of a PITA to remove the pump cover and blow out all the chips, but it's a very easy and effective way to secure the tube with minimal intrusion of the parts involved.

For the deeper sump pick-ups I like to make a steel strap going over to one of the pump cover bolts. The strap is MIG welded to the tube and since they are similar materials it's NEVER coming loose for any reason, pic below.......Cliff

Cliff do you have a photo of the stock pickup?

[Tom Vaught]

I have never brazed the pickup screen to the oil pumps I have used.
I have seen quite a few done that way in the 60s thru 80s.
I have always retained the pump screen by drilling a small 1 millimeter hole on both sides of the inlet boss on the pump. I cleaned up those holes internally with a small file.
Then I inserted the pump screen into the pump inlet and located it properly.
(The pump gears, by-pass parts, and cover were already removed).

Then I used a .9 millimeter (.035") drill bit to carefully drill thru the pump screen tube so that I had a clear hole thru both side of the pump inlet boss.

I use a length of .032" Aircraft Safety Wire and threaded it thru the holes I drilled.
Twisted the wire in the proper aircraft recommended fashion and attached the wire thru 4 aircraft bolts predrilled by the fastener maker. Again using the twisted wire aircraft approach. I have never had a pump screen or the bolts come loose doing this method.

Never saw a "Need" to safety wire the Pump to the Block. Those fasteners always seems to be at Torque spec vs the end of the pump fasteners and the inlet tube.

ONE .032" stainless aircraft wire is not going to cause any restriction to the oil flow.
And that is the medium wire size that is used in a lot of aircraft and auto racing applications.

I could have used the smaller .025" wire but a .031" drilled hole size is a PIA hole size to drill in the pump parts. Having the pump oil screen come off is not a fun thing after a engine build. It takes a bit of time to do the mod but I don't need a welding torch or any real fabricated parts, just some drills and the proper wire, and some time. I have a lot of time these days.

Tom V.

[Cliff R]

"Cliff do you have a photo of the stock pickup?"

I did Tom but lost them when my last hardrive crashed. To effectively retain the stock pick-up all you need is a small hardened machine screw, I use 8-32 pan head.

Correctly install and "locate" the pick-up on the pump.

Remove the pump and gently clamp it up in soft jawed vise.

Drill the pump just inside where the pick-up goes into it..

Tap the hole for 8-32.

Remove the pump cover and gears. (Good time here to clean-up the associated parts, remove any casting flash, smooth/blend oil passages if/as needed, etc)

Blow out any filings and metal chips left over from the drilling/tapping/clean-up operation.

Re-install the pump cover and torque the fasteners (I also use red Loctite on them).

Install the hardened screw and retain with red Loctite.

The entire operation typically takes about 10-15 minutes and the pick-up will NEVER move for any reason......Cliff

[Tom Vaught]

I will have to try Cliff's method on one of my oil pump builds.
Thanks Cliff. No Brazing for me.

Tom V.

[Bruce Meyer]

There is nothing wrong with Brazing. Welding might be risky because you are welding cast iron to steel. I would rather Braze the pickup tube than put little screws in that might fall out and end up in the pump or worse.

[JSchmitz]

Brazing is safe on cast iron. Brazing is 85% as strong as welding. Welding is fine. Has to be done properly. Safety wiring is probably best bet.

[JSchmitz]

One approach.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Brazing and welding are risky ways of attaching the pick-up tube to the pump body. I know, I know engine "builders" do this all the time, but how many get back into those engines at a later date to see if it's still attached?

I tried that deal one time and a few years later went back into that engine (full race) to freshen it up and found the pick-up had broke a BIG chunk of material off the pump and it was all laying in the bottom of the pan.

For the stock pick-up tubes I prefer to gently provide a flat surface and drill/tap for a hardened machine screw. It's a little bit of a PITA to remove the pump cover and blow out all the chips, but it's a very easy and effective way to secure the tube with minimal intrusion of the parts involved.

For the deeper sump pick-ups I like to make a steel strap going over to one of the pump cover bolts. The strap is MIG welded to the tube and since they are similar materials it's NEVER coming loose for any reason, pic below.......Cliff

The Canton pickup attaches like this. With the steel strap that is.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

...We can argue about whether brazing, welding, or set screws are better...

KNEW that the discussion was going to follow. First one I welded was 1985 and the engine has been abused for many years. Just saw the pump a year or so ago when I retired the race block to street duty. As long as we have chosen to weigh in again, my preferred method is MIG welding the tube to the body. Heat is so mild that by the time I shut down the welder I can put my fingers next to the welded area. Brazing takes a lot of pre-heat and transfers much more heat throughout the assembly, and I personally don't do it. Drilling and tapping is fine except there is always the possibility that some of the chips go towards the pickup screen and only become dislodged after the oil gets warm and circulating.

I'll stick by my original statement and any method of attachment is better than nothing since I have found three non-secured pickups laying loose in the bottom of the pans on tear-down over the years.

The deep pan pickup came with a nice bracket; but the other aftermarket standard pan pickup didn't, so it was tacked in place. I've done the retaining screw a couple of times by request, and they work fine. Just a lot more work and always the worry about where the chips might go.

[69FIREBIRD76MM]

Lustforspeed, it's that the milodon pick up? looks like the one in my motor.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

One approach.

That won't stop it from rotating.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

One approach.

Bottom Pic is the way your safety wire looks.

Top pic is the way my safety wire looks when attached to the pump.

Notice the multiple wire twists spaced closely together.

The top "Connection" would actually be the drilled hole securing the screen to the Pump Boss.
The other two connections (at 3:00 and 6:00) would be to the pump cover bolts.

Tom V.

[64speed]

It’s funny the lengths people go to to get the pickup tube attached when none of this was done at the factory. I have rebuilt a few SBC and have never done anything but drive it in. I guess ymmv

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by 64speed

It’s funny the lengths people go to to get the pickup tube attached when none of this was done at the factory. I have rebuilt a few SBC and have never done anything but drive it in. I guess ymmv

Except they do vibrate out. Like I said I've found three pickups in the bottom of the pan when pulling engines down. The pic posted was right after we dropped the pan and that's where the pickup was at. The friend had a drop in oil pressure on braking and then we figured out why. Only finding three failures leaves a whole bunch of engines that we took apart where the pickup was fine, but it's such a simple preventative measure to avoid a potential problem.

Originally Posted by 69FIREBIRD76MM

Lustforspeed, it's that the milodon pick up? looks like the one in my motor.

It's been awhile, but believe the first pic with the strap is a Canton pickup and the second without it is a Moroso.