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#1
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Winberg Crankshafts?
Anyone know if Winberg Crankshafts makes billet cranks for us Pontiac guys?
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#2
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Will be interesting to find out. Their site says prototype so they would make anything you could dream up. Wonder what the ULTIMATE Pontiac V8 crankshaft would be? Definitely want the added counterweights....Billet, anything else "design-wise" that one would want?? Just curious what we could dream up to have designed.
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#3
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Here, design a crankshaft
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine...ign_issues.htm "People think billet is stronger than a forging, but that's not true. Billet got that reputation from back when forged aftermarket cranks weren't readily available, and billet was the only way to go for a performance crank. With a forged crank, the forging process creates an interwoven grain structure." Crankshaft Tech - Hot Rod Network .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#4
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It you need a few made, I would likely go in with you.
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#5
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Anyone wanna play along and figure out what the ultimate crank would be? I took a quick look At the link above. ...a heat treated and nitride, straight shot oiling, fully counterweighted forging with a real slick finish...anything else?
Any stroke or main & bearing size more desirable than another? |
#6
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#7
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Maybe, and not meant to argue. But I'll suggest not apples-to-apples.
In part from a article regarding the costs of NASCAR..... Here is where we really see the power of money. Production engines live and die by a couple of dollars, while cost is no object for racing engines. (We've heard that one Nascar engine runs about 50 grand.) The pistons, rings and wrist pins in a Cup engine cost about three times the cost of an entire production Hemi V8, reports Baer. Then consider NASCAR's exotic (and expensive) titanium valves. The expense comes from the complex shape of the race pistons and the precise machining of their surfaces, Baer says. "You can't just knock them out on a lathe," he said. "It takes special equipment to make them." The same goes for the crankshaft, which is made of an advanced iron alloy. Even race spark plugs are unorthodox and comparatively pricey, Baer adds. "Production spark plugs cost pennies and ours cost dollars," he says.
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#8
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I called Henry Velasco a couple years ago,he makes billet cranks.In Downey CA.Tom
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#9
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Awhile ago after 10+ years of service I had a oiling issue that led to one bearing going bad. The crankshaft LOOKED fine except upon routine inspection we found the custom Crower billet crankshaft SLIGHTLY out of spec. The machine shop started to straighten the billet crank and right away the sound ..... BING ! It cracked. Junked it and ordered a Lunati forged crank and finished the repair.
A tid bit and a story for conversation. Does it mean anything relating here, I have no clue. Edit: I do agree that CUP engines run billet cranks. It's the cost and typical delivery time that is not apples-to-apples with the forged Pontiac cranks sitting on shelves ready to ship. Crankshaft Tech – Crank Call https://www.hotrod.com/articles/0710...ankshaft-tech/ .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 01-05-2019 at 11:52 PM. |
#10
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I have a billet Velasco crank but I also bought a Winberg for the A/Fuel Dragster and I must admit - it's Jewelry quality and was almost to pretty to use!
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Randy Repp 1964 GTO "GoatZilla" 1964 GTO "Injunuity" A/FX Nostalgia Super Stock 220" Rear Engine Pontiac Powered Dragster https://www.facebook.com/PontiacSpeedShop/ https://www.facebook.com/GoatZillaRacing/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/RebuildExcitement/ https://www.facebook.com/Call1844RacersRV/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/INJUNWARS/ |
#11
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I would also look into alternatives to the normal half-moon keyway in the snout. My blown hemi V8 did well by milling the keyway full-length of the snout and using a single long key through both the timing gear and the blower pulley hub. For the four-banger (more inherent torsional vibration) I went to a single long round key to eliminate the stress risers at the corners of a square keyway- which also was a devil of a job.
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Anybody else on this planet campaign a M/T hemi Pontiac for eleven seasons? ... or has built a record breaking DOHC hemi four cylinder Pontiac? ... or has driven a couple laps of Nuerburgring with Tri-Power Pontiac power?(back in 1967) ... or has a Pontiac born the same year as Jim Wangers? (1926} |
#12
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Steve that's full on true!
A non twisted 4340 Crank is the ultimate in strength you can get! I am not 100% sure but I think a twisted Crank and most Billets are about the same in strength?
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Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
#13
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The dragster have a pontiac in it? Got pics of the winberg crank?
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#14
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I really always envied the fact that the Pontiac guys could get a Sonny Bryant crank.
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#15
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Discussions are meant to enlighten us on a specific subject and we all have our own opinions and schools of thought. I thought It'd be neat to poll them together and see what we could dream up and have designed so Winberg could whip one (or 10) up and maybe they would have an offering for the Pontiac V8. And not just some "run of the mill" crank available from many places...but a "kick-ass" crank that any "True Pontiac Race Engine" enthusiast would salivate over. Jack has some GREAT input...anyone else care to "dream" up a crank to submit to Winberg for pricing?
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#16
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And the process starts with a poured metal. An ingot is basically a casting ! How and what is blended before becoming hot poured metal and the processes involved in shaping, hardening, and creating the final product is what makes the difference.
Powdered metal technology is showing possibilities and may end up being the ultimate in process for parts of the future. Could powder based materials be blended with metal and plastics for the ultimate durability??? I think so. I've seen thin plastic metal blend materials (machine covers)that took a cut off wheel or hack saw to trim vs older version you could simply score and break off with a pocket knife. The company I worked for was using both powdered metals and powdered plastics as early as the 80's. I'm sure the technology has advanced considerably. Composite crank and rods anyone??? Imbedded hi tech metals in equally hi tech plastics??? The OEM's seem headed this direction. Last edited by BruceWilkie; 01-06-2019 at 12:25 PM. |
#17
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Good points, Bruce. How do we figure that into our dream crank that we submit to Winberg?
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#18
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Tell him to get together the scientists to develop the materials and processes.
Shouldn't cost much right ? Perhaps the right blend of advanced epoxy resins (JB Weld? lol) and a mix of powdered metals you couldn't normally/easily melt together let alone take advantage of their own specific heat treat qualities??? Better yet you would then make it possible to have strength, cushion and lubricity where each are most needed. |
#19
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#20
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I had the same experience back in 2012. I was told they would need to do 50 cranks to even consider Pontiac crankshafts to make them cost effective. Thanks. Calvin Hill Hill Performance 708-250-7420 |
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