[tom s]

I have to agree with Tom on this,just too thick for this application,maybe a 100 gasket but not this much.Tom

[performerrpm]

i can change pistons if i need to since its not together yet....i already gotta take the crank in to be cut for a 2nd keyway. not sure if that will change the balance or not but if it dont then i was just trynna keep from buying new pistons and having to rebalance if i could make it work. ive read on yb of alot of guys running 6 psi with e85 and higher compression but just not sure if that goes for pontiacs too.

[73 TRANSAM]

I saw that episode too. But he was having issues with the Procharger every time. I'm sure he realized that too! He went from Nitrous to Procharger to turbos. And looked at what Kyle Kelly said. I cant keep up with this twin turbo cars anymore. I'm sure he will convert soon if he wants to be on top!

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by 73 TRANSAM

I saw that episode too. But he was having issues with the Procharger every time. I'm sure he realized that too! He went from Nitrous to Procharger to turbos. And looked at what Kyle Kelly said. I cant keep up with this twin turbo cars anymore. I'm sure he will convert soon if he wants to be on top!

I’m not saying that turbos cant make a **** load of power, sometimes it’s better to fine tune a combo before turning up the boost you might be surprised.
As fo Kyle Kelley he might be getting some freebie stuff from Musi!

GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

You put the correct pistons into the engine (while it is apart right now) you have a lot of room for growth with the boost system vs a bandaid with a high failure potential just to get to 9 to 1 compression ratio.

Send a PM to Charlie66 as he has been running e-85 with boost for years, He has run as high as 39 psi, He makes 750+ HP out of a 1/2 of a 400 engine (4 cylinder pontiac engine) with 4 more cylinders he would make 1500 hp out of a 400 cid engine on e-85.

HE can give you some very good advice on running a E-85 engine with boost on the street.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

With e-85 you can run higher compression with no problems.

GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

You know what’s nice about running a little more compression is that you can still make HP while running less boost and spinning the blower less which is easier on the crankshaft! Just a thought!!


GYO George

[73 TRANSAM]

I hear u about fine tuning first. When we are the engine dyno, all I wanted was 1000 hp and that's it. First pull was 1080 at 5200 rpm with 20 plus boost with a 13.4 AFR as my wastegate wasn't bleeding enough boost. I also learned a lot of screwing around with the Blow thru carb based on my dyno experience with the help of my Good Friend Charlie!!! I wanted to turn up the boost on the last pull but I had some header leaks and didn't adjust the home made boost controller to make a difference in boost. I wanted to run 20 psi to see how much power it would have made but it still went to 15 psi on the last pull. My motor was on the dyno for almost a month with 50 plus pulls due to fuel pump issues and waste gate issues.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

You put the correct pistons into the engine (while it is apart right now) you have a lot of room for growth with the boost system vs a bandaid with a high failure potential just to get to 9 to 1 compression ratio.

Send a PM to Charlie66 as he has been running e-85 with boost for years, He has run as high as 39 psi, He makes 750+ HP out of a 1/2 of a 400 engine (4 cylinder pontiac engine) with 4 more cylinders he would make 1500 hp out of a 400 cid engine on e-85.

HE can give you some very good advice on running a E-85 engine with boost on the street.

Tom V.

1,500 HP at 39 lbs of boost.....why so much boost? Im making around 1,400 at 11 lbs of boost!


GTO George

[73 TRANSAM]

I wish I have unlimited funds just like them guys! I don't know whats their Day job but I'm sure it is not just coming from that!

[Tom Vaught]

Work with Blueghoast and Charlie66 (once you get the right pistons in the engine) and you will be fine with e-85 fuel and whatever boost you decide to run.

And as was posted, a timing controller helps keep the new head gaskets in the engine performing properly. Be very careful with the timing though. Talk to Charlie66 about the reasons for that deal.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

Since the Butlers and Travis Q (as well as Marty Palbylin, in 1996) run high boost (that is 45 to 75 on a typical engine
and the Tractor Pull boys with the diesels are over 100 psi of boost with their stuff, it is not worth my time to explain the difference between a 88 or 91 mm Turbocharger and a 8-71 roots blowers capabilities.

You have a large engine, you have a poor efficiency supercharger (50-55% typically) and you don't spin the thing very high rpm so you make 11 psi of boost pressure and run low 8s. Your supercharger will live for years racing at those boost levels. (unless you do something stupid).

Charlie66 could run 38 psi of boost pressure on a 400 cid engine and make 300 more hp with his small engine vs your 525 cid engine. Which is 125 cubic inches bigger just by adding more boost pressure vs what you run).

Marty could run 6.96 with old school diesel turbos in 1996. It is now 23 years later and you are happy running low 8s and making a lot of passes with your combination. Marty was in the mid 40s on Boost Pressure if I remember correctly.

Mahovitz with a 281 CID engine and high boost 75 psi range runs in the 5s with a door car in the quarter mile. Your Roots system on his 281 cid engine would be a POS.

So read some books on Turbochargers George and then post up and I will try to answer more of your questions on the difference between the two boosting devices. If I explained a Turbo Map to you, then you would understand that a turbocharger (TO BE HIGHLY EFFICIENT AT MOVING THE AIR - must to be over 70% efficient) and the impeller has to spin 75,000+ rpm vs your Roots deal spinning 7500 supercharger rpm.

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Since the Butlers and Travis Q (as well as Marty Palbylin, in 1996) run high boost (that is 45 to 75 on a typical engine
and the Tractor Pull boys with the diesels are over 100 psi of boost with their stuff, it is not worth my time to explain the difference between a 88 or 91 mm Turbocharger and a 8-71 roots blowers capabilities.

You have a large engine, you have a poor efficiency supercharger (50-55% typically) and you don't spin the thing very high rpm so you make 11 psi of boost pressure and run low 8s. Your supercharger will live for years racing at those boost levels. (unless you do something stupid).

Charlie66 could run 38 psi of boost pressure on a 400 cid engine and make 300 more hp with his small engine vs your 525 cid engine. Which is 125 cubic inches bigger just by adding more boost pressure vs what you run).

Marty could run 6.96 with old school diesel turbos in 1996. It is now 23 years later and you are happy running low 8s and making a lot of passes with your combination. Marty was in the mid 40s on Boost Pressure if I remember correctly.

Mahovitz with a 281 CID engine and high boost 75 psi range runs in the 5s with a door car in the quarter mile. Your Roots system on his 281 cid engine would be a POS.

So read some books on Turbochargers George and then post up and I will try to answer more of your questions on the difference between the two boosting devices. If I explained a Turbo Map to you, then you would understand that a turbocharger (TO BE HIGHLY EFFICIENT AT MOVING THE AIR - must to be over 70% efficient) and the impeller has to spin 75,000+ rpm vs your Roots deal spinning 7500 supercharger rpm.

Tom V.

Sounds like your double talking.....that’s ok you just answered my question! LOL!


GTO George

[Tom Vaught]

For some people when they don't understand, it is always double talk. LOL!
Typical answer but expected.

How about this George.

Since you are now a Turbo Expert as well as a Roots Expert,
What is the difference in these three compressor maps?

Tom V.

[GTOGEORGE]

Tom, I asked a question and you answered it by not being able to answer it.........let it go.
Back on topic!

GTO George

[GTOGEORGE]

Ok I just can’t let it go..........what does Butler, Marty P and different size turbos have to do with me and making almost the same HP with only 11 lbs of boost compared to the 39 lbs of boost and 1,500 hp you said Charlie will make at 400 cubes?
......because that whole post made NO sense at all!

GTO George

[charlie66]

The smaller ci motors need more psi to make the equivalent power to the larger ci motors. Thats all tom is trying to say.. My 198 ci motor made 750 hp with 35 psi. But theres more to it then that. Like compatibility. Having the right size turbine wheel vs the amount of exhaust gases that will be spinning it to effectively get the most out of the compressor wheel for a given cubic inch .. I started out with a 76mm compressor wheel matted with a 67mm turbine wheel . Then i realized at 35 psi is was
all done . All it did after 35 psi was make heat ! Same thing these blowers are known for. So basically after that, went with a smaller commpressor wheel of 68mm and a larger turbine wheel 70mm . Now i was able to make more power with a smaller turbo on the same motor. The biggest concern i see with this blower on the street is keeping the heat out of the intake. If you can do that you will be able to keep it togther with AFR and timing . So E85 will be a good idea as long as you can keep the heat out. If you cant, the e85 will not be enough and it will detonate..11to1 with a blower sounds like a stretch to me.. An intercooled turbo setup ive seen it done..

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by charlie66

The smaller ci motors need more psi to make the equivalent power to the larger ci motors. Thats all tom is trying to say.. My 198 ci motor made 750 hp with 35 psi. But theres more to it then that.

Wasting your breath Charlie, Can't help someone who knows it all.

Tom V.

ps Back on pistons and head gaskets.
Put the right pistons in your engine, sir, and run 9.0-9.2 compression ratio on the E-85 fuel
and you will be happy and the engine will give you a lot of enjoyment at lower boost levels..

[73 TRANSAM]

I think if ur compression is at 10to1 and u keep it at 6 lbs> I don't think it will be an issue. Eagle rods are not the best but there are a lot of people running then successfully. I like the L19 rod bolts but a lot don't like them either. I would put that together and enjoy the car. Just know your limitation and be conservative. Also E85 is a must at that compression or race gas.

[GTOGEORGE]

Originally Posted by charlie66

The smaller ci motors need more psi to make the equivalent power to the larger ci motors. Thats all tom is trying to say. But theres more to it then that. Like compatibility.

Thats also true with root blower engines. The smaller then engine the more boost you need to make up the difference in the cubes BUT without the rest of the parts to go along with more boost it won't be a happy engine.
What tom was trying to say was mumble jumble but it was getting late for him. lol!


GTO George