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#1
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Clutch help
I need some help getting my clutch set up. This is what I have going on right now. Hays 10-130 flywheel, CF DF 11” with N1716 throw out bearing, stock bellhousing, stock fork and clutch linkage. I started by pulling the fork towards the rear of the car until the bearing touches the PP fingers. Screw out the adjustment rod until it sits in the fork pocket. Then back it off 3 turns to achieve a 1/4 gap. When the clutch is pressed in, nothing happens. The clutch disc doesn’t move off the flywheel. If I thread the rod out until the TB touches the PP and then press the clutch in the disc barely moves. Doesn’t come off flywheel at all. If I start the car in gear, the wheels will move with the clutch pressed in. Before I start shotgunning parts at this some advice would be greatly appreciated. I’m going to pull everything off and start over. I didn’t measure the flywheel height but thinking I may need an adjustable pivot ball.
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#2
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Not an expert by any means but based on my one experience adjustable pivot ball is exactly what you need. Had same equipment on my '69 GTO - got it to work but clutch would always grab when it got hot and grind reverse and 1st. If you still have an original flywheel suggest you measure it then measure the Hays - adjust the pivot ball to make up the difference and work from there. When the geometry is off it can't be adjusted properly. Hays is thinner so longer pivot length is needed IIRC. Good luck, Mark O.
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Ain't as good as I once was, but I'm as good once as I ever was. |
#3
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1st make sure the pedal is all the way up against the stop on the inside.
(like when released) Adjust the rod for zero clearance. (all slack taken up) Then see if it works. If not, inside where the pedal stop on bracket is, see if there is a rubber bumper. Take that out and adjust the rod again. It will hopefully work now.
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#4
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Any chance the disk is in backwards?Tom
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#5
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One check the clutch disc thickness.
Two check the finger height setting with the pressure plate flat on a work bench. An in car method to see if the clutch disc is to thick is the problem is be to put washers between the pressure plate and flywheel and have each bolt go thru the washer. Stan
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Stan Weiss/World Wide Enterprises Offering Performance Software Since 1987 http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/carfor.htm David Vizard & Stan Weiss' IOP / Flow / Induction Optimization - Cam Selection Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV Download FREE 14 Trial IOP / Flow Software http://www.magneticlynx.com/DV/Flow_..._Day_Trial.php Pontiac Pump Gas List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_gas.htm Using PMD Block and Heads List http://www.magneticlynx.com/carfor/pont_pmd.htm |
#6
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Tried taking all the slack out but still doesn’t move clutch disc much. TB has to be away from the fingers because of the weights.
CF DF disc has a gold film on flywheel side and I can see it. 99.99% it’s on the right way. Hays is thinner and I messed up not thinking about it. Have to pull it all out to measure. Any recommendations on an adjustable pivot ball? Can you adjust it with everything set up in the cat? |
#7
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What kind of car is this?
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#8
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69 GTO
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#9
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maybe a taller Throwout bearing can help
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#10
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wrong throw out bearing
fork came off the crotch of the bearing on tranny install re welded z bar .... the old weld up the tube repair tired sloppy z bar worn throw out arm pivot .. wrong pivot ... aftermarket pivot not adjusted correctly wrong throw out arm/fork wrong adjuster rod <<<<<<< not adjusted correctly ? not a pontiac clutch pedal or push rod bent frame mount for the bellcrank them aftermarket forks they used to sell like to hit the rear of the bellhoung hole and bottom out Pontiacs really like oem PONTIAC throw out forks for propper geometry just a couple things come to mind |
#11
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TB is one that came with kit
I can look up and see TB on the fork. Appears to be in place. It travels smooth. Pedal assembly, clutch rod,, z bar, fork, adjustment rod all new from Ames The pedal runs out of travel before it actually does anything. |
#12
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As Scott said, the tolerances may be wrong if anything is worn or changed.
My suggestion gives about 1/8" to 3/16" (?) of additional travel. That would be enough to make it work. (done it many times) Takes about 2 seconds to take out. A pic of the A-body linkage and the bumper:
__________________
John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#13
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I am going through the same issue on my brother's 1970. I got a Hays adjustable pivot ball and he is installing it today, I'll let you know how it goes.
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule. |
#14
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So the fork travels outside the bell, but not inside? Did fork come off the pivot ball or TO bearing not in fork correctly?
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#15
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had the same issue, there are three different length t/o bearings . you need a longer one
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#16
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HOW FAR?
Quote:
It would take a shorter pivot ball to get the release bearing closer. Then you'ld have to make sure the arm had enough room to travel before it hit the bellhousing. More pedal travel would have you cramming it against the floorboard to shift. Depending on distance, a little longer release bearing sounds like a good plan. Just have to shorten the actuating rod to compensate. That or a throwout arm that's got a curve to the inside so it will clear the weights on the pressure plate. IMO, Little longer bearing is starting to sound really good to me. That's working with the rest of the parts you have now. Clay
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All the federales say,they could've had him any day They only let him slip away, out of kindness...I suppose Poncho & Lefty |
#17
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Did you compare the old TO bearing to the new TO bearing? Were they the same?....still think a taller TO bearing will help
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#18
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When you first tried it out...Was there any damage done from "self clearancing"?
Arm hitting weights couldn't have sound very good. That's when you first start pushing on the pedal. Just starting to take slack out or pedal still close to the top. Link to pic of DF pressure plate. You can see the weights the arm was hitting before the release bearing touched the fingers. https://www.centerforce.com/product/...157440-c427467 Longer bearing or shorter ball, depending on just how much clearance is needed. Clay |
#19
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Couple things to check. Make sure the Spring tangs on the fork are inside the groove on the T.O. bearing. Also check the geometry of the fork. With the T.O. Bearing touching the fingers, the flat part of the fork (before it curves) should be coming straight out of the bell housing or angled slightly toward the engine. If it comes out angled toward the transmission you're loosing leverage and probably need a longer pivot ball.
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'71 GTO, 406 CID, 60916, 1.65 HS, '69 #46 Heads 230CFM, 800CFM Q-jet, TH400, 12 Bolt 3.55 '72 Lemans, Lucerne Blue, WU2, T41, L78, M22, G80 |
#20
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Thanks for all the help. Talked to few people about Hays flywheel and all agree that it is thinner. Some used adjustable pivot ball or different TB. I bricked on not measuring before hand.
TB is 1/4” away from the fingers. The fork end is more toward rear before TB touches fingers. My thought is to the fulcrum point closer to the engine with adjustable pivot ball. I ordered the ball and TB 1377c to have on hand. Hopefully everything will be here by next weekend. |
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