[455rebel]

After many coin flips, I've decided on the 703 voodoo. Now let's get the rest of the valve train picked? I have the 400 large valve heads with all exhaust thread holes. Lifters? I'd like a cam saver, or cool face style just for insurance, also made in USA. Now for rockers? Will Harland S, go under stock covers? I've used them before (on AMC engines), and think their great. Now for springs, need 135lbs / 325lbs , or similar! Lunati sells springs, or should I use something else.
Spring retainers, locks? Stock guide plates ok?

[ponyakr]

Only cam saver type lifters that I know of are the Crower Cam Savers & the Rhoads Super Lubes.

The cool face lifters are solids, I think.

Most guys here will probably recommend the HyLift Johnson "R" lifters, from Paul Knippen.

One way to get Hylift Johnson cores & the Super Lube feature is to go with the Rhoads. Most don't recommend Rhoads lifters for the Voodoo cams. But, as Cliff has explained here many times, if you buy the V-max Rhoads, you can adjust 'em for the amount of bleed down you want.

But the Rhoads V-max Super Lubes ain't cheap.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RHOADS-SUPE...-/264038113633

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...w/make/pontiac

https://www.jegs.com/i/Rhoads-Lifter...518XL/10002/-1

For all I know, the Crower Cam Savers may also use Hylift Johnson cores. There has always been lots of HFT lifter debate here. Some think the Eaton, made in Mexico lifters have caused problems. Don't know who supplies the lifters any of the cam companies sell.

[1968GTO421]

As for rocker arms this recent thread may be helpful:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=836523

[455rebel]

If no one offers the HyLift Johnson "R" lifters, with the cam saver oil grove, I've read bout guys doing it their self? Anyone on hear had trouble with the crower? Not really looking for budget rockers, I'm going with the HS, just wondered bout under stock cover, spacer needed?

[Cliff R]

I've never seen the need for "cam saver" type lifters in one of these engines. With the open lifter bore area I've glanced down there many times while priming these engines and BOAT-LOADS of oil is running down on the camshaft lobes and the oil is still thick and cold.

IF you have doubts about lobe failures take the money not spent on those expensive lifters and send the cam out to be ion-bonded or "coated". Then run the Hylift Johnson or Rhoads V-Max lifters on it if you want a variable duration lifter that's adjustable for the amount of "bleed-down" at low RPM's.

Your cam will come back looking like it was chrome plated. It's not that expensive and without any oil at all has the lubricating capacity of 5W-30 motor oil. It will last just about forever and if nothing else you will sleep better at night.........Cliff

[steve25]

What year heads are you running as determines the valve lenght needed and in turn the the valve springs needed?

Low comp heads have a 4.980" installed height with a factory valve job ( not recut!) and if you run the standard high comp valve lenght to be able to run more then .500" lift saftly then you will have about a 5.110" installed height, but then you also need to setting in on what retainers you are running as the aftermarket retainers will give a different seat pressure.

[GPC]

Any links to where you can send a camshaft to be ion bond coated?

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by GPC

Any links to where you can send a camshaft to be ion bond coated?

Hopefully this link will help:

https://www.ionbond.com/about-ionbon...locations/usa/

[67gtospud]

If you don’t mind me asking, what were your other cam options? I had the 703 in my 400 for a short amount of time but ultimately decided it was too tame for me and went with the 704.

I bought my springs and retainers from Lunati and brought them to my machine shop and had them set everything up at the correct height.

[Steve C.]

If interested Comp Cams offers Camshaft Nitriding.

Nitriding is recognized by metallurgists worldwide as one of the most effective ways to increase the case hardness and lobe surface lubricity of flat tappet cams, all in an effort to enhance both break-in and long-term durability. Pro Plasma Nitriding is a patented process that uses pulsed nitrogen plasma to infuse nitrogen ions into the part – strengthening and fortifying the material on a molecular level, through a depth of approximately 0.010 of an inch. Once again, COMP Cams has proven their technological leadership by becoming the first aftermarket valve train company to own and operate a Pro Plasma Nitriding service in-house..


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[Steve C.]

More often than not calling Lunati is similar to calling Comp Cams tech. Depending on the cubicle your phone call is routed to Comp often just regurgitates the use of their 995 valve spring.
Similar to Lunati with almost all their hydraulic cams, including the Voodoo line, they say to use their 73949 valve spring.

From Jegs:

Lunati 73949 Dual Valve Springs
Seat Load: 120 lbs/in @ 1.650

From that you need to evaluate your installed height.

Some might even suggest less pressure, a low 113-115 lbs has been suggested.
That is quite a bit less compared to Paul Carters actual experience, including his dyno testing Voodoo lobes.
Regarding that low amount, Paul's response...

"They will be a little weak. You need to shoot for 125-130 lbs. on the seat, and over 300 open with the 30° intake seat. Otherwise you might experience valve bounce from the flat seat angle.
The Voodoo cam has a very gentle closing ramp, but still the 30° seat needs pressure."

And I will suggest that is probably his suggestion for a minimum and AFTER they have lost a bit of pressure with run in.

No matter what brand just remember never trust catalog stated pressures, they can and do vary. Test them at your intended installed height with the retainers you plan to use.


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[HWYSTR455]

Whichever lifters you use, get ones with removable snap rings, and disassemble & clean them.


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[Cliff R]

+2

If your lifters don't have HD snap rings in them and just the little bent wires replace them with good snap rings. ONE time I didn't do that and ended up pounding one of those retaining wires out of the lifter and had to pull the intake to fix it. That was on a stock 318 engine I rebuilt for a friend of mine about 25-30 years ago.

In other words snap rings are cheap and going back into an engine because you saved $10 is expensive in more ways than one......FWIW......Cliff

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

+2

If your lifters don't have HD snap rings in them and just the little bent wires replace them with good snap rings. ONE time I didn't do that and ended up pounding one of those retaining wires out of the lifter and had to pull the intake to fix it. That was on a stock 318 engine I rebuilt for a friend of mine about 25-30 years ago.

In other words snap rings are cheap and going back into an engine because you saved $10 is expensive in more ways than one......FWIW......Cliff

What failed to let the pre-load off the plunger so it could hammer the wire clip?

Once hydraulic lifters are adjusted the clips are pretty much just there, not doing anything.

Clay

[pastry_chef]

Jones on EDM oiling lifters below, this is a benefit I'd want.

We started EDMing the lifters for some NASCAR Ford engines, around 1990. It was very expensive at that time(about $5 a lifter).
When the cost came down in the late 90's, we started selling the EDM'ed lifters to our circle track customers, and from the start, we saw the cam life increase 300%. At that point, we stopped offering non-EDM'ed mechanical F.T. lifters.

[455rebel]

Originally Posted by 67gtospud

If you don’t mind me asking, what were your other cam options? I had the 703 in my 400 for a short amount of time but ultimately decided it was too tame for me and went with the 704.

I bought my springs and retainers from Lunati and brought them to my machine shop and had them set everything up at the correct height.

703 or 704 , were my options. I decided 703, because of 3:15 gear, max red line of 5500(with rev limit set 5700), stock converter, daily driver, wife, daughter can drive it, non sticky tires, and I've had cars with a cam a tad too big, 1 a tad small is much more street friendly. Also, I've had a 702 in this engine, with low compression pistons, it was a beast, but run out of steam bout 4500rpm.

Now back to questions. I'm going with the Hylift Johnson. Does their R lifter make noise like Rhodes? Went to their web site and read all, but didn't say at what rpm they stop bleed down, or if they made noise? They offer a cam face hole special order?
After reading cliffs post bout all the oil going to cam, I may do nothing?
Or cut my own grove?
When the heads come off I'll question again bout springs and setup?
Still 2-3 weeks from teardown, gotta repair my son's farm tractor!

And, anyone know of a decent machine shop within 100 miles of east TN?

[Steve C.]

"max red line of 5500"

Source ?
Estimate based on previous cam ?
If from Lunati website don't put too much into it. Cam website information can be like throwing darts at a board.
Or from a similar dyno proven Pontiac combination ?

.

[pastry_chef]

Dyno with a 703
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=776169

[Jay S]

Merry Christmas!

X2 on Steve C’s post.

Lifter face oiling is only on solid lifters. Hydrualic lifters with the oiling mod have a small groove the outside of the lifter. If there is a face oiling option on a hyd lifter I have not heard of it. As cool as it would be, unfortunately, face oiling effects the hyd lifters function to much. A lot more $$$ for EMD drilling thru the face versus a groove on the outside. Outside groove usually adds $20-$30 or so, may not help much, certainly won’t hurt. More oil should be directly on the face of the lobe.

Johnson R lifter are not variable duration, not much anyway. They just have a slightly higher bleed down rate than stock so they do not pump up at high rpm. You could run them, but really do not need them unless your planning on running extended periods past 6000 rpm.

Other members have said the HS rockers fit under the stock valve covers using the 5/16 thick gaskets. It is tight. I ran crane 1.65 under stock valve covers with a solid roller cam, took some work to do that.

The 703 really does not have much more rpm potential than a 702. It has more overlap and more lift. But the intake closing and the exhaust opening are within a couple degrees of each other between those two cams. 703 will make more hp than a 702, but at about the same peak rpm. A couple hundred rpm higher for the 703 over the 702 would be about it. It will be a beast in the midrange though in a 455. At 5700 it will sound like the 455 with the 703 is going to come thru the hood.

[455rebel]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

"max red line of 5500"

Source ?
Estimate based on previous cam ?
If from Lunati website don't put too much into it. Cam website information can be like throwing darts at a board.
Or from a similar dyno proven Pontiac combination ?

.

My reasoning is stock resized rods with ARP fasteners!