[Tom Vaught]

Boost is a great equalizer, no matter whose name is on the block and heads.
Flathead engines have run 300 mph at Bonneville, LS engines are nothing exceptional except they are making GM a lot of money.

Tom V.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Here ya go. This is a 2005 6.0 LQ4 I installed in a 72 4x4 blazer. It's bone stock down to the exhaust manifolds and 80K miles. Drive by wire, A/C etc... I put a 4L60E behind it, and it's running 33" tires no less with only 3.73 gears. Shaped like a brick and runs 14.30's in the mid 90's for mph. Almost finished the 1/4 mile in second gear as you can hear. Needed more gear. Weighs just over 5,000 lbs. without a driver. I didn't air down tires or even pop the hood. Just drove it in over 100 miles, no burnout, and raced it. This was also our daily driver for about 3 years. 22 mpg highway. This is me smoking a brand new 2010 SS Camaro. Just be glad you didn't run up against this in your tundra

https://youtu.be/msgSc3S-yHA

Put me at 5000lbs and you are dust. My truck is 5700lbs+. AND you are driving a 6.0 vs a 5.7
That LS is not even in the same league as a quad cam, 32 valve HEMI. The engine is a overbuilt beast.
I mean, a pushrod 2 valve engine will have better mid range and low end, but in the end can not keep up.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Boost is a great equalizer, no matter whose name is on the block and heads.
Flathead engines have run 300 mph at Bonneville, LS engines are nothing exceptional except they are making GM a lot of money.

Tom V.

Still a 2 valve, 4 head bolt pushrod engine "like" a Pontiac. With the same cylinder stagger ?
But man have they invested a lot of money into them. Great main cap arrangement.

[Dragncar]

The best trucks today are built by Toyota and Dodge. GMs have tranny issues and Fords gas engines are all boosted "wear themselves out" engines.
Just a nice big tough gas NA engine please. Tundras with the 5.7 do not get great gas mileage. 4 valve heads do not lend themselves to it.
You think I want some boosted BS engine and some failure prone electronically shifted gazzilion speed trany ???????
Nah. Give me a nice big NA V8 and a very tough 6 speed. Tell you what, I wish Toyota and the rest all built manual trannys in their gas trucks. Last I knew Dodge was the last one left. Not sure if they even do anymore. You had to special order them in 08 from Dodge. Almost bought one.
That new 5 cylinder turbo diesel Dodge has is a great truck. I would own one.

[Cliff R]

"Boost is a great equalizer, no matter whose name is on the block and heads".

+2

Most accurate assessment I've seen glancing over this thread. Boost makes up for most of if not all the deficiencies in the basic design, and a very good way to go provided the rest of the engine is strong enough.

I'd love to see all the big names blowing at least 5-7psi to these V-8 gas engines. For sure the Dodge Hemi needs it, I've owned two of them and they certainly make the power but EXTREMLY thirsty even if you drive them like a little old lady.

I'm pretty much on the fence a the moment and not sure what I'm going to do next for a truck. I exploited the diesels to death, and have owned all the "good ones" made until they started added DEF and CAT's to them. Looking back at all of them to the 6.5 Chevy I'd say that overall the 2001 5.9 Cummins was the best of the bunch in terms of power and fuel economy. The 2007 Duramax was nearly as good, but couldn't reach the fuel economy numbers of the Cummins. The 7.3 Ford was excellent, but the auto trans behind it was a pile of chit. Same with the early Dodge 5.9, excellent engine, auto trans was a complete joke to even think about putting behind the powerful diesel engine.

When I quit towing long distances and heavy loads I got away from the diesels and went to a 2003 Dodge with a 5.7 Hemi. Really loved that truck but on it's best day down hill driving it as gently as you possibly could 13.5 mpg's. I replaced it back in 2017 with a new 3/4 ton Dodge hemi, and had to send it on down the road. What a pile of bovine excrement! I had more issues with that truck than I can count. It would take 20 pages to discuss all of them here, couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

I'm liking my 2018 Silverado with the 5.3 LS engine. Does everything I want and no problems whatsoever anyplace. As mentioned earlier plenty of power for anything I've tried to do with it, and EXCELLENT fuel economy when you're not towing and driving like you have some sense. It actually gets better fuel economy on the highway than my wife's 2015 Nissan Rogue, which amazes me.

Now making comparisons I'd still rather have a late 1970's Chevy 4 x 4 truck or Blazer with a 350 in it, backed by a TH350, cast iron transfer case and 12 bolt diff with 3.07 gears in it. Simple, strong, worry free and nearly as good everyplace as a new one for about $50,000 less money........Cliff

[JSchmitz]

The 5.3 has the edge on mileage vs. the 6.0 without towing. But the 5.3 struggles more towing. I have a '04 GMC Silverado 2500HD 6.0. I swapped witha buddy for a week. He had an '06 Tahoe 5.3. It really worked a lot harder up hills than my 6.0. But I get 12-14 mpg unloaded and about 8-10 mpg towing.

[Cliff R]

About 6 years ago I borrowed a new (at that time) GMC 2500 HD truck (single cab) with the 6.0 liter engine to make a trip to Florida to pick up a Harley Davidson Road King I purchased. We hooked a small 12' trailer to it for the trip. The truck was fantastic on flat ground and the engine stayed in 6th gear and converter locked up at any highway speed.

As soon as we got on I-77 South and hit some small grades it started downshifting at the slightest load and engine revving up to 5000rpms and staying there till we topped the hill. As we ventured further down 77 the hills got bigger in West VA and the truck was spending nearly all of it's time at 5000rpm's seeking lower gears to keep it there and this is with an EMPTY trailer probably no more than 1500lbs. Even with that little tiny trailer on steeper pulls it wouldn't maintain 70mph either and just kept down-shifting and staying at 5000rpms......I thought a few times it was going to EXPLODE!

At the first fuel up we put in around 30 gallons and had only logged 150 miles or so....YIKES!....that ain't good Fuel economy in W-VA and Va thru with the steepest grades dropped even lower, one tank only netted about 4mpg's.

I spent the rest of the trip trying to use manual combined with and w/o "tow-haul" to keep the truck from downshifting so far and having to sit there and squirm in the seat while the engine sat at 5000rpm's on every grade. NOT happening. When we got out of NC on 77 things return pretty much to "normal" and the engine pretty much stayed in high gear for the rest of the trip on flat ground. Even so it BARELY managed 11mpg's pulling that little trailer.

Loaded up the bike in Orlando and decided to come back I-75 as it avoids the big pulls for the most part. Didn't help one bit. With the additional 900 pounds in the trailer the truck kept seeking lower gears on nearly every uphill grade and the engine was SCREAMING it's ars off the entire time till you topped the hill.

It nearly cost me more for fuel than what I paid for the bike! Not really but fuel economy was HORRIBLE and I wasn't the least bit impressed with the 6.0 HD set-up anyplace. Unlike the Duramax I owned using the "manual" mode would not allow the operator to prevent downshifts and let the engine "lug" a bit. What a HORRIBLE set-up and I don't consider that particular combination worth two squirts of duck-poop as a "heavy duty" truck with decent towing capabilities. They may do OK for some, but sitting there in the seat with the engine about ready to explode and tach stuck at 5000rpms just isn't making it.......IMHO.......Cliff

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Put me at 5000lbs and you are dust. My truck is 5700lbs+. AND you are driving a 6.0 vs a 5.7
That LS is not even in the same league as a quad cam, 32 valve HEMI. The engine is a overbuilt beast.
I mean, a pushrod 2 valve engine will have better mid range and low end, but in the end can not keep up.

Excuses

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

About 6 years ago I borrowed a new (at that time) GMC 2500 HD truck (single cab) with the 6.0 liter engine to make a trip to Florida to pick up a Harley Davidson Road King I purchased. We hooked a small 12' trailer to it for the trip. The truck was fantastic on flat ground and the engine stayed in 6th gear and converter locked up at any highway speed.

As soon as we got on I-77 South and hit some small grades it started downshifting at the slightest load and engine revving up to 5000rpms and staying there till we topped the hill. As we ventured further down 77 the hills got bigger in West VA and the truck was spending nearly all of it's time at 5000rpm's seeking lower gears to keep it there and this is with an EMPTY trailer probably no more than 1500lbs. Even with that little tiny trailer on steeper pulls it wouldn't maintain 70mph either and just kept down-shifting and staying at 5000rpms......I thought a few times it was going to EXPLODE!

At the first fuel up we put in around 30 gallons and had only logged 150 miles or so....YIKES!....that ain't good Fuel economy in W-VA and Va thru with the steepest grades dropped even lower, one tank only netted about 4mpg's.

I spent the rest of the trip trying to use manual combined with and w/o "tow-haul" to keep the truck from downshifting so far and having to sit there and squirm in the seat while the engine sat at 5000rpm's on every grade. NOT happening. When we got out of NC on 77 things return pretty much to "normal" and the engine pretty much stayed in high gear for the rest of the trip on flat ground. Even so it BARELY managed 11mpg's pulling that little trailer.

Loaded up the bike in Orlando and decided to come back I-75 as it avoids the big pulls for the most part. Didn't help one bit. With the additional 900 pounds in the trailer the truck kept seeking lower gears on nearly every uphill grade and the engine was SCREAMING it's ars off the entire time till you topped the hill.

It nearly cost me more for fuel than what I paid for the bike! Not really but fuel economy was HORRIBLE and I wasn't the least bit impressed with the 6.0 HD set-up anyplace. Unlike the Duramax I owned using the "manual" mode would not allow the operator to prevent downshifts and let the engine "lug" a bit. What a HORRIBLE set-up and I don't consider that particular combination worth two squirts of duck-poop as a "heavy duty" truck with decent towing capabilities. They may do OK for some, but sitting there in the seat with the engine about ready to explode and tach stuck at 5000rpms just isn't making it.......IMHO.......Cliff

That's what dad's truck does. 2014 with a 6.0 and 6 speed auto. Tows nice as far as stability and nice driving truck, but that thing downshifting and screaming on the grades was unnerving. Living in mountain terrain out West here it's not a truck I'd want to tow with all the time. With a duramax in it, it'd be killer. I just can't get past the sticker shock, lol.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

"Boost is a great equalizer, no matter whose name is on the block and heads".

+2

Most accurate assessment I've seen glancing over this thread. Boost makes up for most of if not all the deficiencies in the basic design, and a very good way to go provided the rest of the engine is strong enough.

I'd love to see all the big names blowing at least 5-7psi to these V-8 gas engines. For sure the Dodge Hemi needs it, I've owned two of them and they certainly make the power but EXTREMLY thirsty even if you drive them like a little old lady.

I'm pretty much on the fence a the moment and not sure what I'm going to do next for a truck. I exploited the diesels to death, and have owned all the "good ones" made until they started added DEF and CAT's to them. Looking back at all of them to the 6.5 Chevy I'd say that overall the 2001 5.9 Cummins was the best of the bunch in terms of power and fuel economy. The 2007 Duramax was nearly as good, but couldn't reach the fuel economy numbers of the Cummins. The 7.3 Ford was excellent, but the auto trans behind it was a pile of chit. Same with the early Dodge 5.9, excellent engine, auto trans was a complete joke to even think about putting behind the powerful diesel engine.

When I quit towing long distances and heavy loads I got away from the diesels and went to a 2003 Dodge with a 5.7 Hemi. Really loved that truck but on it's best day down hill driving it as gently as you possibly could 13.5 mpg's. I replaced it back in 2017 with a new 3/4 ton Dodge hemi, and had to send it on down the road. What a pile of bovine excrement! I had more issues with that truck than I can count. It would take 20 pages to discuss all of them here, couldn't get rid of it fast enough.

I'm liking my 2018 Silverado with the 5.3 LS engine. Does everything I want and no problems whatsoever anyplace. As mentioned earlier plenty of power for anything I've tried to do with it, and EXCELLENT fuel economy when you're not towing and driving like you have some sense. It actually gets better fuel economy on the highway than my wife's 2015 Nissan Rogue, which amazes me.

Now making comparisons I'd still rather have a late 1970's Chevy 4 x 4 truck or Blazer with a 350 in it, backed by a TH350, cast iron transfer case and 12 bolt diff with 3.07 gears in it. Simple, strong, worry free and nearly as good everyplace as a new one for about $50,000 less money........Cliff

I can relate with the Dodges being troublesome. Two coworkers where my wife works both bought brand new Dodge trucks, both hemis at first. They do a lot of towing around here on weekends with their campers. First complaint was gas mileage. Then shortly after they started having issues with both trucks. One had a check engine light and constantly back to the dealer. The other needed front suspension replacement after 20k miles. All done under warranty but still. The check engine light deal was a constant issue for the first year, frustrated he took it back and traded it in on a new Dodge Cummins. He couldn't be happier about the tow ability and power, and better fuel economy, and so far no issues with it, but it's still early. The other coworker is looking to get rid of his Dodge truck now. After 3 years of ownership and at the dealer 3-4 times a year for various issues, the warranty is about to expire so he's done with it. He's looking to trade for a new truck but undecided what direction he's going. The Cummins is a great diesel, been around decades, but the trucks themselves seem to have other issues.

[Cliff R]

Most of my issues with the 2018 Dodge were engine, transmission and rear diff related. It also had numerous other problems but I'll quickly just hit the main stuff.

The engine started out fine, 13.5mpg's which wasn't great but not that hateful. Then it started "surging" and acted like it was "hunting" for the right tune for lack of better words to describe it. Mileage fell to 11.3-11.4 and stayed there not matter how easy you drove it. Several trips to the dealer with ZERO improvement or answers.

Then the diff started "whining", not just a little, it got really loud. I was out in Colorado on a hunting trip and discovered the diff was WAY low on fluid, took over 2 quarts to get it near the fill hole...YIKES! The noise didn't get any worse after that but damage was done. When I got back the dealership told me it was fine and that I "over-filled" it.....WTF. Not possible to "over-fill" one as any excess runs out the fill hole, but they tried to put it back on me.

Then the trans, biggest POS in any vehicle I owned period. When you slowed down coming to a stop or yield and didn't completely stop it would "bind-up" between several gears and "lug" the engine and truck wasn't moving. Then if you kept pushing down on the throttle it would finally find low gear and throw you and all your chit into the back seat, any drinks or coffee in mugs without good lids would be all over the place!

Never set an engine or trans code so the dealership kept saying it was fine. Even threw some BS at me that even the owner of the dealership drove the truck, couldn't hear the "whine" in the diff, trans never acted up once and the engine never "surged".......I left the dealership that day and drove to a Chevy dealership and traded it off!......Never again will I go that direction no matter what the price or how good everyone says that junk is.........FWIW.......Cliff

[Sirrotica]

The Cummins/dodge is like the Christmas gift that is great, but the packaging is throw away crap...…..

[JSchmitz]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

About 6 years ago I borrowed a new (at that time) GMC 2500 HD truck (single cab) with the 6.0 liter engine to make a trip to Florida to pick up a Harley Davidson Road King I purchased. We hooked a small 12' trailer to it for the trip. The truck was fantastic on flat ground and the engine stayed in 6th gear and converter locked up at any highway speed.

As soon as we got on I-77 South and hit some small grades it started downshifting at the slightest load and engine revving up to 5000rpms and staying there till we topped the hill. As we ventured further down 77 the hills got bigger in West VA and the truck was spending nearly all of it's time at 5000rpm's seeking lower gears to keep it there and this is with an EMPTY trailer probably no more than 1500lbs. Even with that little tiny trailer on steeper pulls it wouldn't maintain 70mph either and just kept down-shifting and staying at 5000rpms......I thought a few times it was going to EXPLODE!

At the first fuel up we put in around 30 gallons and had only logged 150 miles or so....YIKES!....that ain't good Fuel economy in W-VA and Va thru with the steepest grades dropped even lower, one tank only netted about 4mpg's.

I spent the rest of the trip trying to use manual combined with and w/o "tow-haul" to keep the truck from downshifting so far and having to sit there and squirm in the seat while the engine sat at 5000rpm's on every grade. NOT happening. When we got out of NC on 77 things return pretty much to "normal" and the engine pretty much stayed in high gear for the rest of the trip on flat ground. Even so it BARELY managed 11mpg's pulling that little trailer.

Loaded up the bike in Orlando and decided to come back I-75 as it avoids the big pulls for the most part. Didn't help one bit. With the additional 900 pounds in the trailer the truck kept seeking lower gears on nearly every uphill grade and the engine was SCREAMING it's ars off the entire time till you topped the hill.

It nearly cost me more for fuel than what I paid for the bike! Not really but fuel economy was HORRIBLE and I wasn't the least bit impressed with the 6.0 HD set-up anyplace. Unlike the Duramax I owned using the "manual" mode would not allow the operator to prevent downshifts and let the engine "lug" a bit. What a HORRIBLE set-up and I don't consider that particular combination worth two squirts of duck-poop as a "heavy duty" truck with decent towing capabilities. They may do OK for some, but sitting there in the seat with the engine about ready to explode and tach stuck at 5000rpms just isn't making it.......IMHO.......Cliff

There's something wrong with that truck, or trailer, in my opinion. No way it should struggle that bad towing 1500 pounds. I have a 20' flat trailer that weighs about 1500 empty. I can barely even tell that it's back there. I tow my 3600' GTO on it with little problem.

I have the 4L80E of course. No real problems for me. Although I don't have mountains. But I recently towed an 8k class excavator on a 12' heavy trailer up and down hills on highway 44 in Missouri with no problem. I wanted a Duramax in the worst way when I bought this truck. I just couldn't justify the extra money for how much I tow.

In the end, everyone has their own measuring stick for performance in all vehicles.

[i82much]

Random thoughts:

(1) No Fiat junk for this guy. Been there, done that. Cummins is a great engine but RAM is crap.

(2) If you want a gas engine that lasts forever, get a non-AFM LS engine.

(3) If you want a hot rod truck, get a 6.2 GM or apparently Toyota makes a fast truck.

(4) If you want to tow with a 1/2 ton at a reasonable RPM, get an Ecoboost. Ford also provides a payload package for the F-150 that pushes you up into near 3/4 ton territory. I went 6.0 2500HD, but if I intended to drive my truck more often the 3.5 F150 with the heavy payload package would have been my first choice.

(5) As Pontiac hobbyists, we can come close to the LS engine in terms of power and fuel economy, we can build a nice reliable driver or street-strip engine. But we don't have to deal with NVH, emissions, packaging constraints, so many things that OEM engineers have to contend with. So enjoy your Pontiac V8 and don't kid yourself!

[3fastgtos]

Since we’re talking trucks now. The two I use the most are a 2008 1500 Silverado with the L76 6.0 and a 2004 GMC 2500 with the 8.1. No load highway driving the 6.0 is pretty good, 16mpg not downshifting much. The 8.1 gets 12mpg never downshifting. Hook my 28’ enclosed trailer behind them with about 3000lbs inside and the 6.0 really struggles and get’s 6mpg. The 8.1 gets 8-10.
Both good trucks but unfortunately I just got bit by the vvt lifters and the 6.0 is hurt. If the cam is hurt I’ll probably buy a new long block for it, if not I’ll replace the lifters and do the afm delete. The 8.1 is using a quart of oil every 2000 miles at 100,000 miles.
I refuse to buy a brand new truck so I might start shopping for a used one. Not really sure what to do.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Random thought; what does U-Haul 20-25' trucks use for engine-trans?
Fabtastic power and Reliability.

[JSchmitz]

The other factor with GM trucks is BS “torque management “. The limit throttle opening and pull timing to reduce power. WTF? Trying to limit warranty claims I guess.

[1965gp]

I think they run fords but not sure what engines

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Random thought; what does U-Haul 20-25' trucks use for engine-trans?
Fabtastic power and Reliability.

Ford, HIS, V-10 Engines.

26' U-Haul Ford F-650. It has a 26′ box bolted behind the single-row cab, with a small “attic” overhang, and is powered by Ford's 6.8-liter V10 GAS engine, sending power to the dual rear wheels....

(If Ford offered the Gas version of the Supercharged V-10 engine (hydrogen and Flex Fuel) shown below, it would be a really good truck for pulling in the mountains vs the LS offerings.) TOO EXPENSIVE though for commercial use.

Tom V.

Maybe some day I will do like Mark Schottler, a Kansas Pontiac Guy, and drop a Pontiac Engine in one of those U-Haul trucks and put some boost on the engine. Bet it would run as well or better vs the Ford V-10 in the truck currently. V-10 engine size is 6.8L or about 410 cid. 440 pontiac engine would do the job and the Pontiac engine would be better than the LS engine.

[Schurkey]

I helped move my Brother-In-Law from Berzerkley, CA, to the Twin Cities. This was something like a dozen years ago. He drove his car, I drove the U-Haul.

We were told when we picked it up that it had "The V-8". Of course, it was the Ford V-10.

On the flat, I was really impressed with the power. I could easily go 80. Any sort of hill, and the speed plummeted like a paralyzed falcon, and then the truck would scramble for lower and lower gears. 'Course, most of that trip was on the flatland; and I could pass anything except a gas station. I remember being distressed a the fuel economy--but I also knew that I'd never pushed a huge box down the highway before, so I had nothing to compare to.

I think at that time, Ford was still peddling the International Diesel with the Ford programming that got them into such trouble. I don't think that Diesel would have been an upgrade from the V-10.