Pontiac - Street No question too basic here!

          
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-16-2020, 04:14 PM
RWS RWS is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: MB, Canada
Posts: 187
Default

My guess is that the timing chain broke, which meant that a number of pistons hit open valves.

That happened to me long ago at about 50 k miles, and it required a total rebuild (albeit with no damage to the block, crank, or rods).

  #2  
Old 09-16-2020, 06:31 PM
SRR's Avatar
SRR SRR is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 1,265
Default

How was the block cleaned before final assembly? I got a block back from a machine shop once and was told "Just put it together" I elected to clean all the oil passages with brake clean and brushes. Lot's of dark gritty stuff came out. I did have a new engine once develop a rod knock after only a few miles and when I pulled the pan there was a pile of black gritty stuff in a small pile under the bad rod...expensive lesson on final cleaning.

The only reason I ask is because I think I see some black debris in your oil pan?

__________________
“Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.”
― Calvin Coolidge
  #3  
Old 09-17-2020, 10:11 AM
hgiv hgiv is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Western MA
Posts: 131
Default

That was my thought. If had some head work maybe there was stuff in there which didn't initially come through. Maybe once hot or higher RPM? Then it almost instantly knocked out 3 plugs and all sorts of trouble happened. Of course I have no idea if 3 bad cylinders could then cause the other damage or things to seize? I mean... a bad electrical situation could cause the same thing. That wouldn't kill everything.

Also we don't know that it's seized... it just won't turn. Not same thing.

  #4  
Old 09-17-2020, 01:50 PM
lust4speed's Avatar
lust4speed lust4speed is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Yucaipa, SoCal
Posts: 8,836
Default

Were the dowel pins put in prior to the line hone?

__________________
Mick Batson
1967 original owner Tyro Blue/black top 4-speed HO GTO with all the original parts stored safely away -- 1965 Catalina Safari Wagon.
  #5  
Old 09-17-2020, 04:29 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 19,429
Default

I dont think anyone has pointed out what the issue might be yet!Tom

  #6  
Old 09-17-2020, 05:49 PM
Scarebird's Avatar
Scarebird Scarebird is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Moita, Portugal
Posts: 5,387
Default

Tom is right. Only disassembly will show the issue here.

  #7  
Old 09-18-2020, 07:22 AM
steve25's Avatar
steve25 steve25 is online now
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Westchester NY
Posts: 17,520
Default

Wow! 10 minutes of main Bearing run time on just assembly oil is a bit more then I would have thought.

__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs!
And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs!

1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set.

Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks.

1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes.
Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph.

Education is what your left with once you forget things!
  #8  
Old 09-18-2020, 09:22 AM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,992
Default

The ten minutes was an estimate, I was not there. Could have been 6-7 minutes. It ran at steady speed breaking in the new camshaft. I guess break-in lube, no to little load, and some splash lube kept it going for a while.

  #9  
Old 09-18-2020, 08:15 PM
tekuhn tekuhn is offline
Senior Chief
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: East Texas
Posts: 431
Default

I’m anxious to hear the assessment of the crank journal. I have a forged Scat 4.25” myself, although it’s for 3” mains. Still in the box, but I will go over it with the proverbial fine toothed comb.

__________________
Hoping to finish a project while I'm still able to push the clutch in....

1963 Tempest Convertible (Ram Air IV w/4” stroke), TKX, 9-inch w/3.70 gears and triangulated 4-link) Pictures
  #10  
Old 09-18-2020, 08:39 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 6,992
Default

I have seen allot of Pontiac engine failures over the last 40+ years but NEVER a failure on the #5 main bearing alone. That is a bizarre failure and I am sorry you had to be the one to have it happen. I am also sorry to hear a Scat forged crank may be the cause because I am building an engine with one as well. Disappointing situation for sure but it looks like you have a good shop dealing with it and it will be corrected.

From the few pics provided, it looks like the oil slinger area and the radius is the problem. It looks like the slinger is not riding in the center of the groove and has little radius. If it was rubbing in the block or cap that would make allot of heat and ferrous debris quickly..


Last edited by mgarblik; 09-18-2020 at 08:47 PM.
  #11  
Old 09-29-2020, 12:14 AM
Schurkey Schurkey is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Seasonally Frozen Wastelands
Posts: 6,346
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
Wow! 10 minutes of main Bearing run time on just assembly oil is a bit more then I would have thought.
Auto Mechanics Class graduation picnic.

A Mopar got dragged out of a Treasure Yard, drained of oil, and idled. Bets taken on how long before it "blew up".

When folks got bored, they put a brick on the gas pedal, not enough to achieve WFO, but beyond "fast idle".

Most folks went home before it seized.

God bless the Leaning Tower of Power.

  #12  
Old 09-18-2020, 12:07 PM
GTOEARL GTOEARL is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 41
Default

Been following your post and your issues here. My heart goes out for you buddy. Waiting patiently for the results. I hope it’s not too bad. I admire your courage in putting the motor together.

  #13  
Old 09-18-2020, 03:37 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 19,429
Default

Pics
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	867529D5-5170-4EAD-BD6F-4CC0F993CACB.jpg
Views:	589
Size:	57.7 KB
ID:	549848   Click image for larger version

Name:	135EEF73-97B8-4ED5-A30D-A2B046CED1BE.jpg
Views:	570
Size:	67.1 KB
ID:	549849  

  #14  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:23 PM
tooski tooski is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario
Posts: 717
Default

Looks to me like a chunk missing at the red circle. Perhaps that's where the tang sits. Also the grooves on this side looks to me to be a bit shorter than the grooves on the other side; as if the saddle was bored too much to one side
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Main 5A .jpg
Views:	429
Size:	123.6 KB
ID:	549850  

__________________
Frank M.
75 Firebird
68 Firebird 400 RAIII
66 Chevy II 461 Pontiac in AZ

Last edited by tooski; 09-18-2020 at 04:29 PM. Reason: Added text.
  #15  
Old 09-18-2020, 10:28 PM
hgerhardt's Avatar
hgerhardt hgerhardt is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: CA
Posts: 697
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
Pics
nevermind what I just said. Man, that made a mess.


Last edited by hgerhardt; 09-18-2020 at 10:35 PM.
  #16  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:02 PM
Formulas's Avatar
Formulas Formulas is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Wrecking Havoc In The Matrix
Posts: 3,333
Default

Is the oil groove restricted by foreign material?
Local bearing starvation?

Doesn't seem to be located in the block properly wheres the tang at cant see it on me cell phone

One thing I do on assy is after every addition to the engine assy every bearing cap every rod cap I spin it to make sure there is no large increase of torque or binding

__________________
........... The More You Follow The Herd The Less You Can Be In The Lead ..........

Last edited by Formulas; 09-18-2020 at 04:18 PM.
  #17  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:30 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 19,429
Default

the bearing was tight at the very rear and as it heated up the heat transferred to the front of the bearing where the very front still has coating.The autopsy has just begun as the radius on the crank really does not look wider than a stock 455 crank.As said before the owner supplied all the parts from a 3rd party and did the assm himself.Mike was a little concerned as the engine did not look like it was assm in a very clean room.So far nothing has been found that the owner did anything wrong.I think the issue has something to do with the after market crank and the Clevite bearing.I had a engine with a little copper showing at the very back edge of the rear bearing but nothing like this.Tom

  #18  
Old 09-18-2020, 04:59 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 19,429
Default

I forgot to ask about the spark plugs!Tom

  #19  
Old 09-18-2020, 05:07 PM
Scarebird's Avatar
Scarebird Scarebird is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Moita, Portugal
Posts: 5,387
Default

Why would the crank be heat blued at the oil feed grooves?

Would a foreign substance heat up if pumped into the oil grooves? Did the rod bearings show the same thing?

  #20  
Old 09-18-2020, 05:37 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 19,429
Default

Bearing was welded to the crank,had spun.Tom

Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:48 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017