[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Point being, High Energy Comp Cams are still made but ARE NOT the same the their currently touted "modern" XE cams

The Comp catalogue says they are different.
Different applications have different requirements.
You probably would say an 'HE' would always perform better than the 'XE', that is false.
A SBC with a modern 195 AFR head (275 CFM through a 2.05 valve) would enjoy the XE or even more aggressive, a Pontiac d-port flowing 260 CFM or less through a 2.11 valve lesser so in general. Piston speed is also a major consideration.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

The Comp catalogue says they are different.
Different applications have different requirements.
You probably would say an 'HE' would always perform better than the 'XE', that is false.
A SBC with a modern 195 AFR head (275 CFM through a 2.05 valve) would enjoy the XE or even more aggressive, a Pontiac d-port flowing 260 CFM or less through a 2.11 valve lesser so in general. Piston speed is also a major consideration.

My point was for folks new to the hobby, to not assume that the XE was the newest version of the HE cams, possibly replacing the HE cams.

[Will]

Originally Posted by pastry_chef

Some dyno information.

406 Pontiac by Tin Indian.
stock rebuild using Seal Power pistons, RPM rods
crower 60916 cam, re-done 6x heads, Performer manifold and 750 Q jet carb.
351 horse and 430 ft lbs of torque
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9H3nWRBEFg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

400 with XE262 dyno image (member silverbullet07).
Exact CR unknown, possibly high 9 range - cranking PSI was 190 to 200.
445 ft lbs @3400
361 hp @5100.
long branch manifolds on but no exhaust. Timing was 32


My pick would be an Ultradyne or Voodoo.

We're getting a little off-track here in that the OP is dealing with a stock, high compression 400. Not something with low compression 6X heads.

I would not recommend the 60916 to anyone running less than about 9.5:1 compression. Lower compression engines are where the Comp cams with their short seat timing and aggressive ramps help.

I would like to see that second example tested back to back with the Crower.

Ultradyne and Lunati both make good cams but I'm not as familiar with them so hesitate to make specific recommendations. I KNOW the 60916 works great in high compression 400s when you want to make a lot of midrange power without having to rev too high.

[bobzdar]

Define too high - I'm ok with twisting it to 5500 or so. I'd actually prefer it be a little peakier and rpm friendly, it's in a fairly light, close ratio stick car and it's a lot more fun for me to row the gears - that's the whole point. I'd rather shift because I have to than because the engine runs out of steam, if that makes sense.

[Jay S]

I kinda like the melling spc-3 in your car. Someone else is a better 670 expert than I am, but I seem to recall noticing most of those 670s in stock form go pretty much turbulent after .4” lift.

If you want a little more cam than the spc-3 later on and the valve terrain is handling the factory 1.5 rockers ok, then the melling 1.65 rockers would very likely bolt right in and clear the pushrod holes. That spc-3 is kind of unique for that for it’s size.

[bobzdar]

Does anyone know if there's a difference between the spc-3 and the Howard CL417251-15? This seem to be the two 744 clones available. Ames is showing an oem replacement but I'm guessing it's the spc-3. There's an actual flat nose oem 744 on ebay but not sure that's a wise choice....

[77 TRASHCAN]

Yeah, there’s debate about that flat nose design of the O. E. 744
Butler has a line of cams out ( just read about the, here a couple of days ago), called Ram Air cams, made by Comp. They make the 067, 068, 744, and 041 cams, factory spec ( I think) in hydraulic flat tappet and hydraulic roller, branded with the Butler name. Might be worth checking out.

[bobzdar]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Yeah, there’s debate about that flat nose design of the O. E. 744
Butler has a line of cams out ( just read about the, here a couple of days ago), called Ram Air cams, made by Comp. They make the 067, 068, 744, and 041 cams, factory spec ( I think) in hydraulic flat tappet and hydraulic roller, branded with the Butler name. Might be worth checking out.

I shot them a message to see how it compares to the spc-3 (which they also carry).

[bobzdar]

Per Butler: "duration specs are the same, but the lobe designs are more efficient and ground by COMP CAMS. they have slightly more lift."

[Will]

Originally Posted by bobzdar

Define too high - I'm ok with twisting it to 5500 or so. I'd actually prefer it be a little peakier and rpm friendly, it's in a fairly light, close ratio stick car and it's a lot more fun for me to row the gears - that's the whole point. I'd rather shift because I have to than because the engine runs out of steam, if that makes sense.

My main concern is with your stock bottom end. Pontiac never intended it to get wound past around 5600 RPM.

The 60916 should do exactly what you want. The larger grinds will carry out to 5800 or more.