[Scarebird]

"the threat of electric"?

How is this even uttered? It is not a threat, it is the the future of individual transportation. As batteries get better, cost will go down and range go up - most drivers look at that as a good thing.

An excellent initial mass use would be for USPS letter carrier vehicles.

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

"the threat of electric"?

How is this even uttered? It is not a threat, it is the the future of individual transportation. As batteries get better, cost will go down and range go up - most drivers look at that as a good thing.

An excellent initial mass use would be for USPS letter carrier vehicles.

Why?

Its not like those bozos will get the mail where its got to go any quicker. I just finally got my package today. NH to NY only took 2 weeks.

[misterp266]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Why?

Its not like those bozos will get the mail where its got to go any quicker. I just finally got my package today. NH to NY only took 2 weeks.

That’s pretty quick! My cousin sent me a Christmas card and also a package of Christmas cookies. Sent them several weeks before Christmas. Got the card a week after Christmas and the cookies the next week. . . . .oh, did I mention she lives in the same state? About an hour and a half away from me.........

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by misterp266

That’s pretty quick! My cousin sent me a Christmas card and also a package of Christmas cookies. Sent them several weeks before Christmas. Got the card a week after Christmas and the cookies the next week. . . . .oh, did I mention she lives in the same state? About an hour and a half away from me.........

Funny but in reality, sad.

Its not like those clowns work for minimum wage or are even underpaid.

Fact is, they are overpaid and provide crappy service. They should just change their name to General Motors.

[dataway]

Hey, when you think about it ... maybe electric cars will cause a surplus of petroleum fuel and there will be more of it for us

I think electric cars and the necessary infrastructure will be a LONG, LONG time coming for all of the third world nations, other oil rich nations, and countries that just do what they want, like Russia and China. So while it may be quick in the US, Europe and "progressive" nations, it might be much, much longer for the rest of the world.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by carcrazy

I will take a position that is contrary to what many believe. The change will happen far quicker than most people realize. Innovation begets more innovation and the significant challenges will be overcome. Then it will be Katy bar the door! That said, .I don't believe it will pose any significant issue to our "hobby" cars...unless the politicians make it so.

X2

Tom V.

[1funride]

Interesting topic and conversations. Im not sure I have anything to add other than a ramble of words, but I am an engineer at a power and propulsion manufacturer that supplies hybrid electric, fully electric, and hydrogen full cell propulsion systems for buses, trucks, trains, military vehicles, boats, and other applications. I will say, a 5 minute charge time will be impressive and will likely end up in smoke that isnt easily put back and latent system failures. Latent system failures are hazardous if you arent completely knowledgeable on the system. The chinese are well poised at delivering vast amounts of componests related to electric vehicles, they will control this inductry due to cost. Their technology is lacking, their batteries lack safety features, but american companies have no choice to look at them due to cost constraints, they steal technology. Some see solar and wind powering our cars and have drank the kool aid. All the energy lost in the generation, transportation, charging, storage, and conversion to mechanical propulsion of electricity makes me scratch my head about how green it is. The aspect of people being qualified to work on electric vehicles is acceptable given proper product devlopement and technician training. I am more fearful of the technology than technican skill sets. $$$ and schedule affect this, engineers have good intentions , but unfortuantely management only sees green and I am amazed at times the mindsets I encounter. The industry standards arent fully in place, how do first responder approach vehicles from all the different manufactures and safe them? They are going to need vast knowledge and going up and cutting cables isnt the right answer. The shift to electric is big business, control, greed, and the new buzz. My skewed 2 cents.

[Will]

I'm not worried about it in my lifetime. It may be considered selfish, but I don't really care what happens to my car after I can't drive it any more. I've got maybe 30-35 years or so left to enjoy it. Gas won't disappear in that timeframe.

[dataway]

Try to imagine South America, 90% of Africa, Australian outback, Siberia, vast hinterlands of China, jungles of India, the wilds of Canada, etc. developing the infrastructure any time in the next 30 years to support electric cars ... heck, most of those place don't even have electricity period, or even indoor plumbing.

So while it might work fine in cities, suburbs and major highways, the power density and simplicity of delivery of petroleum fuels will reign supreme in the hinterlands for a long time.

I can foresee a time not too long in the future when you may have to drive ten miles outside of town to get petroleum fuel, when electric vehicles dominate the cities it won't make much sense to invest in gas stations, so they will shift to where the demand is greatest.

I think the infrastructure will lag behind the battery technology by a considerable margin when it comes to very rural areas ... which still comprise the majority of the land mass of earth. I'd expect it to be illegal to drive an ICE in most cities within 20 years.

[The Champ]

I've refrained from posting here because of the sensitivity towards anything that can be construed as political.

But I've been thinking while reading the thread and really the key is the electrical power grid and how it's sources power. Unless your electricity is coming from mostly renewable resources, it is not as green as people think. This doesn't even factor in the non renewable energy used to make and transport the batteries for these vehicles or the energy used to mine the minerals necessary for their construction.

The most electrified nation in the world is Norway. New car sales in Norway were dominated by electric vehicles in 2020 - over 70% of sales. Norway can do this because Norway currently generates 98% of it power via renewable resources - only 2% is generated from fossil fuels.

Norway is a very small country that happens to be able to use hydropower generation for 95% of it's needs. They generate another 3% from solar and wind sources.

This is not possible in the United States or most countries for that matter. The best example of our inability to do this here in the US is California. California is attempting to force electricity on it's citizens with new regulations. In many California cities/counties, require newly constructed buildings and remodel projects that update more than 50% of the building to be all-electric.

They don't want to allow natural gas to be used in new construction, but they still use it to produce over 40% of their electric grid. Nuclear power represents less than 10%. Hydro is less than 20% and total renewable energy sources or less than 35% (wind/solar/etc).

Yet California suffers from frequent brownouts and blackouts (remember last summer's heat waves) because the power grid doesn't have the capacity to meet the current demand. As they build more all electric homes and buildings along with increased numbers of electric cars - what happens?

The electric grid will limit the numbers of all electric vehicles for the foreseeable future.

[Tom Vaught]

Wind constantly blows in Michigan. Detroit Edison has lots of "Wind Farms" to harvest that energy. many farmers turned away from growing crops to selling land to the Electric suppliers to install wind generators. NOISY SUCKERS but a constant supply of cash coming in vs depending on crops from years to years.

That being said, still a very small amount of contribution vs taking power from the grid.

Tom V.

[JimFB400HO]

Today, I read that it takes 500,000 pounds of material to be extracted from the earth to process the elements needed to make a 1,000 pound battery system for a vehicle. Unfortunately a sizable percentage of the rare earth materials needed for the battery technologies are controlled by China.

[66sprint6]

You won't have to give up your classic car. Just it's soul. They'll have an electric power unit for under your hood, which will perform, look and possibly even sound like your old motor.

https://electrek.co/2020/10/09/tesla...s-crate-motor/

https://electrek.co/2020/10/29/gm-19...onversion-kit/

[SRR]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

"the threat of electric"?

How is this even uttered? It is not a threat, it is the the future of individual transportation. As batteries get better, cost will go down and range go up - most drivers look at that as a good thing.

An excellent initial mass use would be for USPS letter carrier vehicles.

All that stop and go will be hard on the battery. The USPS is so deep in a financial hole now where will the money come from for that?

[SRR]

Originally Posted by The Champ

I've refrained from posting here because of the sensitivity towards anything that can be construed as political.

But I've been thinking while reading the thread and really the key is the electrical power grid and how it's sources power. Unless your electricity is coming from mostly renewable resources, it is not as green as people think. This doesn't even factor in the non renewable energy used to make and transport the batteries for these vehicles or the energy used to mine the minerals necessary for their construction.

The most electrified nation in the world is Norway. New car sales in Norway were dominated by electric vehicles in 2020 - over 70% of sales. Norway can do this because Norway currently generates 98% of it power via renewable resources - only 2% is generated from fossil fuels.

Norway is a very small country that happens to be able to use hydropower generation for 95% of it's needs. They generate another 3% from solar and wind sources.

This is not possible in the United States or most countries for that matter. The best example of our inability to do this here in the US is California. California is attempting to force electricity on it's citizens with new regulations. In many California cities/counties, require newly constructed buildings and remodel projects that update more than 50% of the building to be all-electric.

They don't want to allow natural gas to be used in new construction, but they still use it to produce over 40% of their electric grid. Nuclear power represents less than 10%. Hydro is less than 20% and total renewable energy sources or less than 35% (wind/solar/etc).

Yet California suffers from frequent brownouts and blackouts (remember last summer's heat waves) because the power grid doesn't have the capacity to meet the current demand. As they build more all electric homes and buildings along with increased numbers of electric cars - what happens?

The electric grid will limit the numbers of all electric vehicles for the foreseeable future.

Although dams are an excellent way to produce power they are very hard on the environment and interfere with fish spawning migrations. Lots of people want dams removed for these reasons.

Fish cannons: https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...s+fish+cannons

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by SRR

All that stop and go will be hard on the battery. The USPS is so deep in a financial hole now where will the money come from for that?

Electric vehicles use regenerative braking, which helps put a charge back in the battery pack any time the vehicle slows down. It also saves a lot of wear and tear on the actual wheel brakes, which in normal driving conditions are hardly used. When you have a large fleet of vehicles like the USPS does, maintenance is a huge expense (and besides just the brakes, electric vehicles generally have much lower maintenance costs overall.)

Also, remember that the USPS has always had to replace trucks as they wear out and are taken out of service, so gradually changing some of their fleet over to electric won't be that big a deal if and when it happens.

Electric power can work fine for commercial vehicles in cities that run a standard route that's the same length every day and then return to a central facility where they can be recharged - mail trucks, delivery vans, city buses, etc. As an example, Minneapolis has had a few electric buses in service for a couple years now, and as far as I know they work quite well. Other cities are using them, too. (And one big thing as far as I'm concerned is they reduce noise pollution, which is always a problem in cities. On summer nights when I have my bedroom window open and I'm trying to get to sleep, I can sure tell the difference between when a loud diesel bus or a nearly silent electric bus passes by.)

I agree that electric power may not be the best choice yet for a mail truck on a rural mail route that is much longer and may vary from day to day, but as the technology improves and range is increased it will probably happen at some point.

[455dan]

Originally Posted by 66sprint6

You won't have to give up your classic car. Just it's soul. They'll have an electric power unit for under your hood, which will perform, look and possibly even sound like your old motor.

https://electrek.co/2020/10/09/tesla...s-crate-motor/

https://electrek.co/2020/10/29/gm-19...onversion-kit/

I Hope the Future allows us to have our cake and eat it to.

Love my Pontiac powered cars, but also believe the future of a majority switch to electric vehicles is almost inevitable.

I am also considering buying either a range extended or full electric vehicle
for a run about.

Lots to like, for example- Its a cold winter day... use the cell phone ap to pre condition the car- cabin air warm, seats pre heated, even a warm steering and windows defrosted .

AS Long as they don't tax ownership of classic Cars out of reach ...

OR WORSE, Outlaw them Completely with a " Motor law"

-like what the Rush song Red Barchetta warns about

https://youtu.be/uukZgfHZIoc

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Wind constantly blows in Michigan. Detroit Edison has lots of "Wind Farms" to harvest that energy. many farmers turned away from growing crops to selling land to the Electric suppliers to install wind generators. NOISY SUCKERS but a constant supply of cash coming in vs depending on crops from years to years.

That being said, still a very small amount of contribution vs taking power from the grid.

Tom V.

I live in SE MN and we have seen the wind turbine population in our area explode since we moved here in 2005. In 2008, Xcel Energy built a single wind farm with 67 turbines in my township (35 square miles) and there are 335, as of 2017, in the relatively small county (712 square miles) I live in. As of 2019, there were over 2400 in MN.

I've heard people complain about the noise, but have not experienced the problem even though I've been relatively close to many of them. I guess you need to be really close to experience it.

These was taken on a -25 degree day in January several years ago. I noticed a beautiful sunrise starting to develop and had thought about photographing the wind turbines, so despite the cold, I did. They are right off the Country Road 8 south of my home.





But MN and MI are not even in the top 5 in wind energy production. The leader is Texas (17,813 MW), followed by Iowa (6,212 MW), California (6,108 MW), Oklahoma (5,184 MW) and Illinois (3,842 MW).

As already noted, wind energy in CA (#3 in the country, yet only about 1/3 of what Texas produces) fails to supplement their power grid enough for the power demands of the state to avoid brownouts/blackouts last summer.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Ahem, I can turn a Pontiac 455 V8 into a more powerful electric motor. I don't because i got no suitable battery.

Not until the electrical storage moves beyond chemistry or static electricity.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Electrical wires along the streets and we all drive our high-tail bumper cars like the Electric trains did.