[whittp]

I asked in an older post I made but it was kind of a different topic. My 68 400 block with a 461 stoker kit is in the shop being rebuilt. The main reason is it had a failure with the Comp 857 lifter bar. I'd like to go with a different set of lifters this time. I may end up running the Comp 51-433-11 HR cam with the Crower 66294E lifters. This is the same cam I had and I realize I'd have to go with different push rods. My shop is recommending the mechanical set but I'm torn between the Crower 66294E and the Crower 66333. I am also aware the spring pressure needed would be different between the 2 as well. Please give me your recommendations. This will be street driven, TKX 5 speed on a 3.55 rear. Street tires.

[Steve C.]

A fwiw, for those interested....

COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Camshafts 51-433-11
Grind number XR288HR-10

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-51-433-11

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[68WarDog]

You're have to decide whether getting every bit of HP out of your engine at the expense of closely monitoring your components, or drive more worry free with a HR setup. Mechanical roller setups are for serious street applications.

[tom s]

If I were you I would call Scott Esterly at Summit and see if he could get you that cam ground on a 112-113 instead of the 110.He is a pontiac guy.I think the Johnson hyd rollers would be a good choice if you could find them.Myself I would use the Comps again.Tom

[Jay S]

I would not run those 6294 E solid rollers on that. Those eduramax bushing style lifters are meant for BIG spring pressures on Solid Rollers. I would run a 6924H or the 6260H that have the pressure lubed needle bearings. I would just do the 6260H, not worth the extra money for the 7 grams you save on the 6294H lifters. If you want to spend more money and make it tougher yet have Crower add another oil hole so it oils from both sides of the bearing. On that MILD roller hybrid set up the pin oiled needle bearings will out last the bushings.

You might want to go a little bigger on the specs with the hybrid set up, you loose some duration from the lash.

FWIW...If going with the HR set up I would get it from Bullet cams and run a Morel HR lifter or on of the Johnson Tom mentioned. I think Howard’s and Lunati are both Morels. Could run the comp too though. I think some of the Bullet profiles have a little gentler opening ramps than that comp your looking at and tend to run quieter, call them and ask. From Comp I would do want of the gentler magnum HR profiles if you want it to last and run a little quieter. Still may not be as quiet as some of the Bullets though.

[Steve C.]

Agree with Jay on the lobe design. FYI, Butler sells it with a 112 LSA.

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2503...tegory:1272239


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[Formulajones]

Since you have to buy the cam anyway, I don't see a reason to buy a hydraulic roller stick, and then put solid roller lifters on it.

May as well buy a solid roller stick at this point and go all the way if you're really hooked on a solid.

Personally, I'd replace the hydraulic roller cam you had in the engine with a duplicate and just run a hydraulic roller lifter on it. Either get the Comp S or the Johnsons and call it done.

[whittp]

Thank you all for the good advise. It sounds like I need to keep it hydraulic for what my expectations are. What are the Johnston part number I would need? Would range would I look for in valve spring pressure?

[tom s]

150 on the seats and standard lifters.Tom

[steve25]

I have not looked in a while to see if it's still offered, but the Comp Cams 290B solid is or was a great Cam in 455 and in a 3400 lb 67 bird with shock high comp heads took the car into the 10s and would have been very livable on the street.

I would also strongly consider if the funds are there to run Conical valve springs which have many pluses, but a big main one is they allow less seat pressure which reduces the chances of break in troubles.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by whittp

Thank you all for the good advise. It sounds like I need to keep it hydraulic for what my expectations are. What are the Johnston part number I would need? Would range would I look for in valve spring pressure?

This is the HR lifter that Johnson would likely recommend for that a 433 cam

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234800

[whittp]

Thanks for all the advise. I'll go ahead and grab a set of the Johnson JLI-2112OPR-16 from Butler. The shop is having the new crank and rolling assembly balanced since there was no evidence of any balancing on the prior build. They are going to check the valve spring pressure and make sure the valve train is good to go as well. Since the springs are already worn in, what pressures am I looking for? I want to rule out all possibilities of anything other than the lifter bar causing the failure.

[whittp]

Ordering the lifters from Butler and had a chance to talk with them about the oiling band issues with the bbc style lifters. The tech told me they don't do any mods to the lifters or bores when they build and engine they just use an 80 psi oil pump. What are your thoughts on this?

[Formulajones]

That issue has been talked to death on here.

My take on it is this...

On more Pontiac builds than I can count I never did the lifter bore mod. I never had any issues what so ever with bleed down or lifter ticking, and we ran some pretty radical hydraulic roller grinds. All the lifters I used to date have been from Comp. One set that I still have I'm told are Johnsons that were reboxed by Comp, which doesn't have the correct oil band, but they were whisper quiet when I ran them.
The latest set just last year I purchased from Paul K. on the forums here. The Comp S lifters. They do in fact have a different height oil band. I put those in a Pontiac block with no lifter bore mod, on a 261/265 @ .050 hydraulic roller and they have been perfectly quiet.

I did build a 455 Pontiac last year and I asked Paul C. to do the lifter bore mod while the block was there for machine work. First time I've ever tried it. Put a set of lifter in that engine from Lunati (others were unobtanium at the time) and that engine has been quiet.

So basically I've had them both ways and I've had no difference in noise or performance either way.

With that said, from my experience it's not necessarily an oil band issue with the lifters but more likely a quality control issue with internal leak down on some of these lifters because the issue is so hit and miss. Yet people continue to go out of their way to try and create a magical lifter with so much emphasis on oil band heights. In 30 years I've just never had a need to do that with a Pontiac.

If you buy a good quality hydraulic roller lifter chances are good you won't see an issue. I'd either go with a set from Paul K, he'll make sure they are correct before he ships them to you, or get a set of Johnsons if they are available.

[Jay S]

The 80 psi pump has the same gears as the 60 psi pump. The only time the 80 psi would ever help send more oil to help any kind of oil band issue is at higher RPMs. If your concerned about lifter feed oil pressure issues the only time it would help over a 60 psi pump is likely above 4K rpm. Majority of the time in a street car the 80 psi pump is not helping anywhere.

IMO..If your trying to put the best parts together the Luhn oil pumps have bigger gear sets and larger suction lines. Personally I would not do the 80 psi butler pump or oil band mods, I would use Luhn’s pump that is capable of better oil supply and those Johnson lifters.

http://www.luhnperformance.com/pontiac.html

[Tim Corcoran]

I have been told by good authority that most engine builders prefer the Johnson Hyd Roller lifter over all others. The Comp Extreme Energy cams have aggressive lobe designs and as a result are hard on valve train components and are more susceptible to making noise, that may be fine if you don't put a lot of miles on the car but if you want better reliability you may want to chose another cam. Although not as popular the Lunati Voodoo cams, although also have aggressive lobe profile they are designed to be less harsh on the valve train because Harold Berkshire designed the Voodoo series cams to be easier on the valve train. Personally I would not put an extreme energy cam in a street car. I know many people have not had problems with them but plenty of others have.

[Tim Corcoran]

Butler told me when they build their engines they do not do the lifter bore mod although they are aware of it. So not sure how important this mod is.