[Tom Vaught]

Unless someone put a "deflecter" Shelf on the back wall of the pan, at high speeds the oil will climb the back wall with hard accelerations or hard side to side movements.

The deflector needs to be welded to the rear surface of the oil pan about 3.5" from the bottom of the pan. It needs to go across the width of the rear of the pan.

A 1/2" strip the width of the rear of the pan is all you need to attach it to the oil pan.
the deflector needs to be a 1 inch identical strip for width but the strip is bent at a 45 degree angle downward and
the bent piece faces the front of the oil sump..

Tom V.

[Steve C.]

Not here to suggest this is a issue with the OP and his right hand turns topic. Information for interest, and a topic we had in another thread regarding a drop in pressure with acceleration.
And it involved a Canton oil pick up, and it's potential design issue.

Related to a statement made about oil pressure, "when you stab the throttle from say 3000 RPM up to a instant 6500 RPM it has trouble keeping up for a split second."

I encountered the same or similar situation. Moving along in say second gear with the RPM steady then stab the throttle you could watch the oil pressure drop about 20 or so pounds for an instant, then quickly recover. We first discovered it when we we installed my fuel injection system and noticed it happening on the data logger printout information for the oil pressure. Sounds silly but before that I had never noticed it since I was always looking forward, not at the gauge, as the car lurched forward like a rocket ship..

When I talked with Mark Luhn he said it was not all that unusual. He has seen it on his oil pump dyno. I now run his custom oil pump and it no longer does it. His custom oil pump has a taller gear set and larger diameter pickup that results in 87 percent more flow per revolution than a regular Melling oil pump.


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[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

When I talked with Mark Luhn he said it was not all that unusual. He has seen it on his oil pump dyno. I now run his custom oil pump and it no longer does it. His custom oil pump has a taller gear set and larger diameter pickup that results in 87 percent more flow per revolution than a regular Melling oil pump.
.

His oil pumps are works of art and CNC machining.

1) His Oil Pick-up design is unique and at the same time has a lot more flow capability when combined with his upgrades on the Oil Pump itself (as Steve Mentioned).

2) The Billet Oil Pick-up design will work with any depth oil pan once he has the actual pan sump depth dimensions from the oil pan flange, gasket used (vs RTV), and the engine block.

A work of art. If you look closely at the oil pump pick-up, there is a oil pump screen trapped inside (between the pick-up bottom plate and the main portion of the unique pick-up design).

Tom Vaught

[Steve C.]

Agree. After I switched to his oil pump my issue stopped.

My Luhn pump is this design:
http://www.luhnperformance.com/image...ump_03_200.png

I might note his pick up design as I pictured was a modified unit from a late model Mustang Cobra, it's no longer available so he now makes his own design as Tom posted.


I use a Canton 15-450 pan that was custom modified by canton with a deeper sump to increase the capacity, also the previous Canton oil pick up was properly adjusted for the increased depth.

Same oil pan now, same baffles, same trap doors... now with the Luhn pump and it's stable oil pressure no matter how hard you hit it !

.

[HWYSTR455]

That's why I was bringing up the volume thing before. You go to external lines that are larger in diameter, and possibly even a 2 filter setup, you need more volume being pumped.

I recall the conversation we had steve c., and the pump thing.


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[Tom Vaught]

Mark @ Luhn Performance started his design with input I provided from work
The pick-up tube diameter was originally a 1" tube used on the Aston Martin V-12 Engines. (vs the stock Pontiac tube diameter of .730" outside diameter).
When the Aston Martin parts dried up, Mark found the Ford Cobra engine pick-up tubes.
Mark's machined aluminum pick-ups are the best design to date.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

It has been interesting to go back a few years and review some of the improvements to the stock Pontiac Oil Pump (modded by Luhn Performance). I posted a picture of his latest Oil Pump Pick-up design in a previous post. #39

Here is the link to the Luhn oil Pump website. http://www.luhnperformance.com/pontiac.html

I have to smile when I see the Part Numbers for the Various Modified Pumps. http://www.luhnperformance.com/pontiac.html#pacemaker

Thanks Mark. Nice pictures of the mods he made previously to the Melling Oil Pumps prior to his Latest "Elevator Shaft"
(my name for it) Oil Pick-up and Screen design.

Tom V.

[Tom Vaught]

It most likely DOES turn the oil back into the pan on Acceleration runs though, vs climbing the rear of the oil pan. Tom V.

[Dragncar]

Now I am sure the nightmare pan is nice but there is one issue with it. And people are trying to tell you about it. The pickup dia is a tad to small for 100% efficiency.
I am building my own pickup with advice from Luhn. Part #s for pickup to chop up.
This pickup is one you can enlarge your pump to .814 and press in. The others that Luhn now uses are in the 1" range and too large to just bore your pump out. So they have to do machine work so it all bolts on.
This is something you can do yourself without major machine work. I have a thread I will re start about it but these are the parts.

[Steve C.]

Of interest, similar Mustang Cobra oil pick up's here:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Must...w=1277&bih=903


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[Giffels]

Small update if anyone’s interested in the baffling in a canton vs. a nitemare. Managed to get the motor pulled after work. Gold = canton, silver = nitemare

Design looks similar but I like the baffle layout on the nitemare, seems like it will really help with the right hand issue (fingers crossed)

[Tom Vaught]

Looking at Photo #3 previously posted of the Nightmare oil pan:

There are some interesting things going on with the oil control inside the pan:

1) The drivers side rear does have a small deflector welded into the back wall of the pan.

2) The area behind the oil pump does not have a deflector but it looks like they created a passage on the passenger side of the pan where the oil could rush to the rear of the pan but then bounce off the rear wall and enter the oil pick-up screen area where the oil would be trapped by the oil pan "gates" that would not allow that oil to go forward.
The gates would also allow oil to pass thru the oil gates to the screen.

3) Looks like the oil pan has a scraper located on the passenger side of the pan that would funnel oil to the sump of the pan too.

Tom V.

[Giffels]

Yes sir. That combined with the built in windage screen makes me think this is the right direction. Added photo now with the tray in it as it comes (can’t help myself to take everything apart)

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Looking at Photo #3 previously posted of the Nightmare oil pan:

There are some interesting things going on with the oil control inside the pan:

1) The drivers side rear does have a small deflector welded into the back wall of the pan.

2) The area behind the oil pump does not have a deflector but it looks like they created a passage on the passenger side of the pan where the oil could rush to the rear of the pan but then bounce off the rear wall and enter the oil pick-up screen area where the oil would be trapped by the oil pan "gates" that would not allow that oil to go forward.
The gates would also allow oil to pass thru the oil gates to the screen.

3) Looks like the oil pan has a scraper located on the passenger side of the pan that would funnel oil to the sump of the pan too.

Tom V.

[adynes]

You might need to try some external oil drain back lines.

[bluebandit]

Gonna throw this out just because but have you considered trying a standard volume pump. Sounds like your pumping the oil out of the pan faster than it can return. If you pump less then more should be available to help cover the pickup.

[Sirrotica]

May I suggest reading this link, about oil drain back lines to keep the oil in the pan instead of on top of the cylinder heads. If you're leaving most of the oil on top of the cylinder heads you're effectively running the pan down a couple quarts as soon as the engine is run at high RPM because of drain back restriction. No matter how the pan is baffled, it won't work if the majority of the oil is in the top end of the engine.

Link: https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...39#post5563539

I have no idea what cylinder heads you're running, but the aftermarket heads (Edelbrock, KRE) don't return oil to the pan nearly as quickly as the OEM cast iron heads do.

The thread also talks about restricting the oil flow through .080 restricted pushrods to keep from filling the cylinder heads. This same thing can be accomplished by installing restrictors in the lifter bore feed holes.

Hopefully this will show some results for your problem.

I'm fairly certain that the remote oil filter system isn't going to show any difference, but if you want to eliminate it completely and try running the engine with no filter whatsoever the Pontiac engineers made a filter elimination casting to run Stratostreak engines with no oil filter.



You would have to fashion your own by pass plate to aid in your troubleshooting because they were few and far between, and of course GM doesn't sell them any longer. You could use a by pass oil filter, eliminate the full flow filter completely, and have zero restriction between the pump and the internally oiled engine parts. You'll also have much cleaner oil over a full flow filter too. You're the owner so the decision would be yours.

Something else I thought about, is your bypass valve operational, or is it blocked? For some reason people think it's a good ides to block the by pass valve and render it inoperable. With a single OEM filter the oil pressure can crush the filter media and make it more restrictive, or actually tear the media paper. I don't subscribe to this theory of blocking the bypass valve, and have never done it on any of the engines I've built for racing or street use.