[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by U47

Both cars have their pluses and minuses.
If you want to go around corners both are terrible performers. That long front end and short deck upsets the balance, as their front ends really push in a turn and the tail ends being so short are nothing but tire burners and do nothing for traction, still if you were to properly set up both vehicles equally the Monte Carlo has a advantage having a shorter wheelbase.
Looks, are a matter of taste. What they said about bumpers is very true. A valance not only has a cheap appearance, but a magnet for stone and chipped paint ( I have a 69 H-O Lemans...I know! ). While I'm on about bumpers, and my LeMans is no exception- that front bumper center point "beak" "projectile" looks like some type of a battering ram and probably some stylist manifestation of a *****. What a tragic outgrowth from the successful split grille theme.
The rear of the cars are pleasing and the Chevy's rear tail lights from day 1 for me gave me the impression of a baby Coupe deVille.
I give the nod to Pontiac on interiors. The cockpit look suits me fine, and as far as a radio out of reach of the passenger goes...I want to be in control, not the passenger of changing stations or volume so no distracting the driver!
Engines; As much as I like a 390HP 428 ( 426 & change), the 454 with up to 450HP just has better heads.--thank Knudsen and Estes for that....... Not that I would buy one, I'm still a Pontiac guy.

It's obvious that you don't understand the engine setback in the G body chassis actually took more weight off of the front wheels, and redistributed it to the rear wheels. In the early 70s the G body cars were preferred over the A body cars just because of the engine setback and the late model stock cars racers used the G bodies because of that factor.

Look in my signature pictures and you'll see that I first ran a 67 GTO , then built a 69 GP for dirt track competition for the very reason of weight distribution. Going to the G body also afforded me the option of a 428 engine over a 400 engine because the engine had to be available in that car from the factory.

NASCAR also used the G body during that time period, when a stock car was actually a "stock car", and a factory chassis was still being used. I'm not seeing the bad handling comment as relevant in these two venues. I personally never had the handling characteristics you posted about in my GP stock car over a 67 GTO stock car.

The battering ram effect on that long front end, yeah that works well in a collision with a competitor, it's a long way back to the radiator in a GP as opposed to an A body. I took out numerous radiators in the GTO, and never took any out in the GP in 3 years of competition. The long front end also afforded me the space to run dual radiators on the GP, 2 3 core radiators back to back, never overheated in the 3 years I ran them.

[U47]

Originally Posted by 242177P

It was actually DeLorean one-upping other luxury cars for the "longest hood"
title. He handed his people a number which he wanted bested.

I don't doubt it for one bit.

[U47]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

It's obvious that you don't understand the engine setback in the G body chassis actually took more weight off of the front wheels, and redistributed it to the rear wheels. In the early 70s the G body cars were preferred over the A body cars just because of the engine setback and the late model stock cars racers used the G bodies because of that factor.

Look in my signature pictures and you'll see that I first ran a 67 GTO , then built a 69 GP for dirt track competition for the very reason of weight distribution. Going to the G body also afforded me the option of a 428 engine over a 400 engine because the engine had to be available in that car from the factory.

NASCAR also used the G body during that time period, when a stock car was actually a "stock car", and a factory chassis was still being used. I'm not seeing the bad handling comment as relevant in these two venues. I personally never had the handling characteristics you posted about in my GP stock car over a 67 GTO stock car.

The battering ram effect on that long front end, yeah that works well in a collision with a competitor, it's a long way back to the radiator in a GP as opposed to an A body. I took out numerous radiators in the GTO, and never took any out in the GP in 3 years of competition. The long front end also afforded me the space to run dual radiators on the GP, 2 3 core radiators back to back, never overheated in the 3 years I ran them.

I perfectly understand the situation, It's my opinion, you have yours , end of conversation.

[bird72]

Entry GP was more of a performer than entry level Monte Carlo. But I would put a bucket seat 454 Monte in the same cool category as a 455 GP. Both could be upped even more with SS and SSJ and both had most desirable 4 speed options. Both had futuristic for the time styling. Both winners dependent on options.

[padgett]

"If you want to go around corners both are terrible performers", only issue is size, my 70 GP handled quite well (and was seriously autocrossing Solo II then) To go really fast you had to be able to overload the rear tires and with a Muncie was no problem.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by U47

I perfectly understand the situation, It's my opinion, you have yours , end of conversation.

I just want to clarify this, here's your quote about poor handling G bodies;

If you want to go around corners both are terrible performers. That long front end and short deck upsets the balance, as their front ends really push in a turn and the tail ends being so short are nothing but tire burners and do nothing for traction, still if you were to properly set up both vehicles equally the Monte Carlo has a advantage having a shorter wheelbase.

You have an opinion that an A body (shorter wheelbase) will handle better on a course requiring going around corners at the highest speed to be competitive, and an A body is in your opinion superior in that requirement over a G body, because you have deduced that to be true?

I have actually built and raced both cars on a dirt oval track, first racing the A body for 2 years, (1975-1976) and then switched to a G body because of the better front to rear weight bias due to the engine being set much further to the rear of the chassis. I raced the G body for 3 years (1977-1980).

I was very competitive in both cars, to the point of being protested by fellow racers that thought I was cheating. The tech inspections, done various times, never concluded that anything on either car was outside of the rules.

In your mind, is your opinion is more valued than my actual experiences, and because my experiences contradicts your opinion, it has no value?

Or maybe your opinion is wrong, and you're doubling down for whatever reason, I have no idea......

There were a lot of dirt track racers in my hometown that in the early 70s switched from A bodies to G bodies for the engine setback, and better weight bias, The 3-6 inch increase in wheelbase wasn't as critical to handling as the advantage of engine setback.

I raced a 67 GTO with a 115 inch wheelbase, and went to a 118 inch 69 Grand Prix giving up the shorter by 3 inches chassis, but gained a 6 inch engine setback. the passenger cabin is also shorter in a G body, moving more weight to the rear of the car. G body weight split is approximately, 57% front, and 43% rear.

The closer you can get to a 50/50 weight split, the better a front engine car will handle. The G body is closer than an A body, it is due to engine and passenger compartment setback. These are facts, not opinions.

FWIW, the F body has a poorer weight bias than either the G, or A body, light rear end, and heavy front end. Or to quote you,

"That long front end and short deck upsets the balance, as their front ends really push in a turn and the tail ends being so short are nothing but tire burners and do nothing for traction."

Herb Adams sure tuned a very nose heavy, light rear car to go around corners, approx, 58% front, 42% rear, could you enlighten us to how that could happen?

FWIW, I also built a 455 powered F body, and ran it for about a year until it was hit broadside and totaled. It fared no worse, or better than the A or the G body, but it was lighter than the other two cars.

1971 455 Firebird from 1981:



Just the facts, 100% real world experiences, no opinions involved.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by padgett

by 3/4" and the longest radiator fan shroud ever seen.

Nah, thats a WIND TUNNEL!!
Mine had it, I know it works!