[ponyakr]

Just saw this.

"...In 1972 NHRA came out with a book called the Factor Finder. That book gave all the re-factored horsepowers higher than what the manufacturer listed. Quoting from the Factor Finder book....."The 'factoring' system was developed by NHRA, defining separate performance ratings for use in lieu of manufactures' advertised horsepower listings on many cars in competition". 1972 and 1973 saw the Factor Finder books printed, then followed by putting the refactored horsepower in the Classguide below each engine column. "

So, has anybody here ever seen one of the '72 or '73 "Factor Finder" publications ?

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Travis Miller

Refactoring of engine horsepower by NHRA actually started as early as the 60's but it was kept a secret for whatever reason until they published a book called the "Factor Finder" in 1972 followed by an updated version in 1973. Sometime in 1973 is also when NHRA started listing the refactored horsepowers at the bottom of the column in the classguide.

What engine combo are you trying to find out the date when it was refactored?

Stan

[ponyakr]

"...So, has anybody here ever seen one of the '72 or '73 "Factor Finder" publications ?"

Does anybody here have a copy of either a '72 or '73 "Factor Finder" ?

Does anybody here know someone who has a copy ?

Does anybody here know where there is an online pdf copy I can read and/or download ?

There's bound to a copy still around, somewhere.

[unruhjonny]

this discussion made me look last night;
I couldn't find one for sale, or posted online.

[ponyakr]

Have found quite a few Pontiac pics on the Petersen site.

As most here know, my 1st Pontiac hero was Truman Fields, who won Stock @ Indy '73, in his '68 Bird.

Petersen has quite a few pics of that Bird, at that race, on their site. Here are the 1st 5 I'll post.

[ponyakr]

Here are 5 more pics of Truman's Bird. The last one I've posted several times. Didn't come from Petersen.

[unruhjonny]

He seemed like a real nice guy;
He even offered me some advice when I contacted him (what seems like now) ages ago.

[sdbob]

The time I saw his car in person at Norwalk he had a small rubber hose going from gage inside car looked like going under intake manifold,maybe valley cover. He watched this gage when he started car. Vaccum or other not sure.i meant to ask but didnt get a chance.

[Mcronk]

As promised I have started going through my old HO newsletters and pulling out info on class racing cars featured. Not sure if this is "old news" but will share. This post is the 74-75 time frame. I will be adding more in oher posts.

[Mcronk]

More from the HO Newsletters. 77-78 timeframe.

[ponyakr]

The 1st & 3rd pics, in post #309, seem to prove that the SD-455 T/A Stockers ran G/SA, in both '74, & at least at the beginning of '75.

Not long after that, the H&M Bird was running E/SA. So, at some point, NHRA gave the SD-455 a big hp hit.

Anybody know exactly when & how much ?

Anyhow, I still can't exactly understand how John Clegg's '73 SD-455 Formy could have run D/S, @ Indy '73, if that in fact did happen.

If anybody has answers to some of these questions, by all means, please post your info.

So far, I haven't been able to find any written evidence of the exact NHRA hp factors for Pontiac engines, back during those years. They were supposedly in the NHRA "Factor Finder" publication in '72 & '73, then in the Class Guide beginning in '74.

But, so far, I haven't located anybody with a copy of any of 'em, or any place online to check one out. Gotta be a few out there somewhere, maybe ?

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

More from the HO Newsletters. 77-78 timeframe.

WOW ! A BIG THANKS for posting these !!!

There are some answers here. I'll check this info out a little closer, then make some comments.

(1) 1st pic says it took all of the 1976 season to sort out the new SS/KA combo. Therefore, I'll have to assume that the big 45hp hit came after the '75 season. Anybody know the exact date ?

(2) Also says the H&M car set the SS/KA record @ 11.11. Don't know who held it at the time. But the H-O Racing Specialties '74 SD-455 set it @ 11.31, in '77.

(3) Also says the car was #1 qualifier @ the Summer Nats & won the Grand Nats. Just checked. That win was in '77.

(4) That 2nd pic reminds me of a proud moment in Pontiac history. It was not only a Pontiac win @ Indy, but the 2nd for that car, plus an All-Pontiac final. Plus, It was Mick Leiferman's 3rd Indy RU in a row.

(5) That Bob Michael '73 Bird was sold to Don Kennedy. Don later switched to GT, with an SD-455 powered 3rd gen Bird.

(6) The last pic shows that Phil Szupka was racing the former H&M SD455 T/A. Phil Monteith later owned it. He changed the front & rear to '74 model body pieces & switched to 400 power. Sal Biondo won his 1st nat event in it.

[Mcronk]

More from 77-78. I still have several stacks to go through.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

More from 77-78. I still have several stacks to go through.

There are several things mentioned about these cars I didn't know.

I especially like the info about the Billy Joe Moravits Bird. He got Stock RU in that car, in 1978, at the IHRA points race, in Tyler Texas. My girlfriend, now wife, TJ won the bracket class at that race.

Well, I'll download all these pics & use 'em for reference & comment on some of 'em, later.

[Mcronk]

There was some information about him being the number one money maker in IHRA one year. TJ sounds familiar. TJ Colvin E/SA Firebird? That is the next stack I will be going through! Meanwhile here is the rest of the 77-78 stack.

[Mcronk]

While searching for information on the class cars I forgot how much detailed performance information was in these newsletters. I believe the principals at HO Racing were aerospace engineers. They explained the "science" and theory of performance enhancement. Very good information that is very applicable today.

I could not help sharing some of the ads I saw.

Rock Runnings E/SA T-37. Not sure if it was an original factory 455 HO T-37. A friend owns one that was raced in the Tampa area back in the day.

How about a 63 SD originally owned by Mickey Thompson for $8,000!

Ever seen a blower manifold for a RAV? Glenn Tinsley had one back then.

[Mcronk]

Some additional information on class racing and NHRA class factoring. HO did an analysis on both the Firebirds and GTOs for class racing.

[ponyakr]

Originally Posted by Mcronk

Some additional information on class racing and NHRA class factoring. HO did an analysis on both the Firebirds and GTOs for class racing.

This is GREAT !

THANKS again for posting !

H-O was a great source, and my main source, of Pontiac info back in those days. Bout the only other good source I had was a 1969 Pontiac Service manual.

I'll make a special folder in my files & store everything you post from the H-O papers. I'm sure I'll be able to use lots of the pics & info in my posts on several sites.

NOTE: PLEASE list a year AND month for each pic/page. Thanks !

[Mcronk]

Yeah it is a little confusing sometimes because some of the articles don't mention a time but some do.

The magazines are monthly. I will try and annotate each photo or article with month and year.

[ponyakr]

NHRA reduced the hp factor on 2 Pontiac Stock combos.

Pont 455 335 330 325 1971 T-37

Pont 455 360 335 330 1970 GTO

These reductions are said to have come as a result of NHRA considering reduction requests from racers running these combos.

Right now, I can only think one one guy currently running each of these combos.

(1) Don Turk is currently running the 455HO powered '71 T-37, which was the "Super Sleeper", made famous by Rock Running, back in the '70's. Ken Shawver then ran it for a while. IIRC, Danny Ashley made some updates to it. But Don Turk has it now.

(2) The only D-port 455 powered '70 GTO I know of has been raced by Todd Kuhn, for quite a few years now.

Don't know how much 5hp will help these guys. But, at least they can run the same class, at a slightly lower weight.

Obviously, NHRA does not reduce hp on a combo, just because somebody asks. Apparently somebody asked for a reduction on the '69 GTO RA3 engine. NHRA declined to reduce it. It's still at the factory 366hp. With the current Stock cam rules, I think 366 is too high for that engine. It doesn't have any more power potential than several similar D-port 400 engines, from that time period, IMO. It can run Ram Air. But I think it has been proven that the '69 GTO RA system does not add much power, if any.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...6&MAKE=Pontiac

With almost the exact same specs, the '69 350hp GTO engine is rated @ only 325hp. That sounds like it could be competitive. But, right now, I can't think of a single '69 GTO Stocker. Only know of one '69 GTO Super Stocker. Would like to know who asked for this hp reduction. Anybody know ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

I'd guess it would have to be someone who wanted to race a '69 Judge. I ASSUME NHRA would only allow either the RA3 or RA4 engine, in a '69 Judge.