[ekancler]

I've been wondering why Pontiac used a different cam in the 1977 W72 T/A than the 1978/79 W72s.

The differences in specs are modest but meaningful, with the 1978/79 cam being slightly more aggressive:

Cam, AID, AED, ID@050, ED@050, IL1.5, EL1.5, LSA, OL, CL
1977 549112, 274, 298, 190, 213, 0.365, 0.41, 114.5, 55, 116
1978/79 10003402, 273, 289, 200, 213, 0.41, 0.41, 113, 54, 118

Did Pontiac undershoot for 1977 on purpose? Emissions standards certainly didn't get less stringent in 1978 yet they went to a more aggressive cam. It would seem they left power on the table in 1977.

Curious if anyone knows the history or rationale there. And also why they didn't go with the 067.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by ekancler

I've been wondering why Pontiac used a different cam in the 1977 W72 T/A than the 1978/79 W72s.

The differences in specs are modest but meaningful, with the 1978/79 cam being slightly more aggressive:

Cam, AID, AED, ID@050, ED@050, IL1.5, EL1.5, LSA, OL, CL
1977 549112, 274, 298, 190, 213, 0.365, 0.41, 114.5, 55, 116
1978/79 10003402, 273, 289, 200, 213, 0.41, 0.41, 113, 54, 118

Did Pontiac undershoot for 1977 on purpose? Emissions standards certainly didn't get less stringent in 1978 yet they went to a more aggressive cam. It would seem they left power on the table in 1977.

Curious if anyone knows the history or rationale there. And also why they didn't go with the 067.

Where did you get those specs from?

This article by Rocky shows different specs.

Cam Quandary
An In-Depth Look at the '77-'79 T/A 6.6 Camshaft Specs
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hp...-cam-quandary/

You could also look at this thread
W72 cam vs. Pontiac 068 cam?
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=386047

Stan

[25stevem]

I don’t think anyone really knows why looking back on it today, but my guess is this.

Pontiac new in 77 that the 78 400 would be the last Pontiac V8 other then the 301 with a resemblance to a classic Pontiac motor.

They also really still wanted to stick it to Chevy since there motor would carry on in the GM, and Pontiac was likely pissed about that!

The extra effort put into the Cam change for the TA motors really made the 78 and 79 Z28 look like Grandma’s motor with its meager 185 hp rating as compared to the TAs 220.

[ekancler]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Where did you get those specs from?

This article by Rocky shows different specs.

Cam Quandary
An In-Depth Look at the '77-'79 T/A 6.6 Camshaft Specs
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hp...-cam-quandary/

You could also look at this thread
W72 cam vs. Pontiac 068 cam?
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=386047

Stan

Honestly everywhere I look the specs are slightly different. The specs I posted are very close but not identical to the specs in the back of Rocky's book.

[ekancler]

Originally Posted by 25stevem

I don’t think anyone really knows why looking back on it today, but my guess is this.

Pontiac new in 77 that the 78 400 would be the last Pontiac V8 other then the 301 with a resemblance to a classic Pontiac motor.

They also really still wanted to stick it to Chevy since there motor would carry on in the GM, and Pontiac was likely pissed about that!

The extra effort put into the Cam change for the TA motors really made the 78 and 79 Z28 look like Grandma’s motor with its meager 185 hp rating as compared to the TAs 220.

That sounds like it makes sense to me. That said, I wonder if they knew they were leaving power on the table with the 77 W72.

[Jay S]

The single cat on the 77 cars might have been part of the reason for a different cam for the 78-79 w72s, IRC, the later w72s in 78 had dual cats.

[Skip Fix]

78-79 still had single cat but had dual mufflers vs single crossflow.

[Jay S]

Thanks Skip. I had forgot it was just the dual mufflers versus the cross flow. I was think it was suppose to be an improvement over 77s.

[77 TRASHCAN]

That large Cat was supposedly a high flowing unit ( for its time). I installed a test pipe on my car. Saw no increase in performance or MPG’s, that I could tell. I still have my old converter.

[ekancler]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

That large Cat was supposedly a high flowing unit ( for its time). I installed a test pipe on my car. Saw no increase in performance or MPG’s, that I could tell. I still have my old converter.

Are you saying that you bypassed the cat with no discernible power increase?

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by ekancler

Are you saying that you bypassed the cat with no discernible power increase?

Yes...

[Jay S]

I don’t know if all those late 400s had the same cat? I assume all the 77 400s used the same cat?. The cam in the 180 HP may have been small enough that the big cat didn’t hurt it much. My brother removed the factory cat on his 76 180 HP corvette and it made a notable difference, but I bet it had a smaller cat that what Pontiac used on these engines.

My 77 4 speed with 3.23s had the factory type single transverse to dual system on it and someone previously removed the cat. Comparatively a friend had a 78 w-72 that was completely stock but had 3 tube headers and 3.42s. My 77 seemed like it was stronger on mid range, no question his 78 had more charge on the top.. For the most part I think the biggest thing that made the 78s quicker was the 3.42 gear offering, followed by the cam, then the exhaust changes. The nose on the 79 cars really slip thru the air, those 79 4 speed W72s in 79 are likely the quickest of all of the W72s. I recall on 79 road test back in the day clocked the top speed at a little over 130, and they mentioned that the top speed RPMs were well past the 5K redline on the tach. Pretty sure my 77 4 speed engine would have done before that if it with it’s cam, and it’s top speed in 77 was just over 120. I never took mine past 5000 rpm. I typically stopped at 4600, could tell it was done before 5K.

[Skip Fix]

78 180 HP had the single muffler only the W72 220HP got the duals. I missed getting the W 72 by 1 month when I got mine.

[jerry455]

I bought a 20,000 mile, used W72 Gold 1978 T/A in the spring of 1982. I removed the cat, richened the carb, quickened the ignition curve and opened the scoop. It made a world of difference. I was beating a lot of my friends "faster cars". They were surprised that my T/A ran that well. It ran really strong. Most people used to laugh at the T/As, calling them the disco cars. I stopped a lot of those comments when I beat their cars.

[PAUL K]

78 TA 6.6 cars were quick. Do the mods Jerry455 mentioned and you were running mid fourteens. That is what the 5.0 Mustangs ran with a good driver years later.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Yes...

I read in a couple of magazines, that the TA's got the same Cat as the Corvette. Maybe it wasn't high flowing. Seemed like all Cats looked like those, back then I do believe that the inlet on the Cat was bigger than the outlet. The outlet dumped into a 2-1/4" pipe on a stock 180 HP TA exhaust (the transverse muffler). I'm an expert at nothing. Just repeating what I read...there was fake news back then....too...

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

I read in a couple of magazines, that the TA's got the same Cat as the Corvette. Maybe it wasn't high flowing. Seemed like all Cats looked like those, back then I do believe that the inlet on the Cat was bigger than the outlet. The outlet dumped into a 2-1/4" pipe on a stock 180 HP TA exhaust (the transverse muffler). I'm an expert at nothing. Just repeating what I read...there was fake news back then....too...

Can confirm that a 78 Corvette has the same cat as a 77-78 Trans Am. I took a test pipe I had from a 78 Vette and installed it on a 77 TA. Direct fit. Cats look identical.

Both were slow as chit. Fixed the Vette by building a 6.0 LS for it, and kicked the TA down the line.

[Skip Fix]

My 78 180 HP and the 2.56s ran high 14s-barely in 3rd.

[Jay S]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

My 78 180 HP and the 2.56s ran high 14s-barely in 3rd.

I want to know details now Skip. That is blistering fast for a base L78 with 2.56s. That is awesome..

[Skip Fix]

The old DIckinson track that the Gays used to race at.