[Cliff R]

"Cliff - tell us how you really feel "

Jon If you haven't noticed I'm quick these days to talk bad about things, which at times may include certain parts or the work of others. Back when I was building carburetors I didn't feel right about bad mouthing anything where it looked like it might be competition, or trying to steer work in my direction, etc. These days I just might tell you EXACTLY what I think about something. I also have bad cases of CRS, and even worse cases of DGS.....that's "Can't Remember Sh*t" and "Don't Give a Sh%t". With all that going on I'm pretty much smiling all the time these days!........LOL.....

[Rob in NH]

When I was deciding on what carb to use I asked lots of people what they're using and how they thought it worked for there application. Thats what my decision was based on, not because I'm cheap.

[Formulajones]

Wasn't meant towards you specifically, it's just what I see in general from my own personal experience.

For what you're doing those smaller eddy carbs generally work ok on stock type engines so you'll probably be just fine. It's just the general consensus of those carbs overall isn't that great.

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Wasn't meant towards you specifically, it's just what I see in general from my own personal experience.

For what you're doing those smaller eddy carbs generally work ok on stock type engines so you'll probably be just fine. It's just the general consensus of those carbs overall isn't that great.

I helped a guy wedge in a 350 Corvette motor into a 1952 Henry J several years ago. He had a dual quad set up with these cheap carbs. I asked him about the carbs, and he told me there were readily available and cheap. He thought they would work well. They do work but that is it. I think he never really got the car finished and on the road after all the years of modifications and fabrications he performed. Sad too, he got older and lost interest, so he let the car sit. I've no idea if he still has the car.

[Cliff R]

On a more serious note, when it comes to carburetors the very best carb is going to be the one you spent enough time with to dial it in EXACTLY for your application. It still makes sense to spend your hard earned money in the right places, so there are options out there that just aren't that great, and other options that aren't worth two squirts of duck poop no matter how much effort you put into them.

No big secret that I absolutely HATE the ever popular Edelbrock AFB clones. Not because you can't findle around with one and get it pretty well dialed in for what you are doing. It will start well and move your car effectively from point A to point B. I hate them because there is not adjustment for the opening rate of the secondary air flaps. So IF they hesitate, stumble, bog, backfire or puke all over themselves going quickly to full throttle there is nothing you are going to be able to do about it. There is also some "cobbling" involved with installing them on some set-ups. I've had fuel line hitting the bottom of the air cleaner base issues, and difficulty running a hard fuel line to them as they are really wide in and the fuel inlet is in the left rear. Otherwise pretty easy to get dialed in if you don't mind giving Edelbrock another pay check for the tuning kit(s).

I've also ran the gauntlet with the Holley Street Avengers and not fond of those at all. They have several fundamental issues which I'll not dive into here, and just not very well made. I've had them come in here delaminating, or basically flaking off internals that are in contact with this new fuel. For sure a notch better than some of Holleys bottom of the barrel work, but certainly not even close to the HP line up. It also appears that Edelbrock now has developed and is pushing another Holley "clone". At a glance they did their homework and addressed every area that needs attention, and put an removeable bleed at every location. Time will tell how they will sort out and fall into the market, but for sure I'd look at those WAY before the shiny Holley cheap offerings.........FWIW.....

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

At a glance they did their homework and addressed every area that needs attention, and put an removeable bleed at every location. Time will tell how they will sort out and fall into the market, .........FWIW.....

Cliff, just a reminder, you already know this:

The vast majority of the Holley Dominator 3 circuit carbs over the years were converted BACK to 2 circuit carbs Holley Dominator carbs and went quicker on the track after the Modification.

Tom V.

[shaker455]

Oh, I thought you showed me a BOP with the intake you had

[Cliff R]

Same square flange dual bolt pattern crap they've been pushing for decades. Sales were never what Edelbrock wanted on the AVS versions even though they have a fighting chance of working when you go quickly to full throttle. The poor sales were only because of the nearly double price point compared to their AFB clones. That fact cause the demise of the excellent run of Q-jets they made for a few years. Who's going to pay over $500 for an Edelbrock 1910 850cfm Q-jet when you can buy two of their POS AFB clones and still have some money left over for a Big Mac and a Coke? To me this indicates how cheap the majority of hobbyists and enthusiasts are when it comes to this sort of thing.......IMHO......

[25stevem]

The OP made a good choice with that 600 cfm carb. That can fill the needs of up to 380 Hp motor very well.

If you want few more top end HP add a K&N sub stack and even with a 600 cfm carb you should be running a open 3 & 14 air cleaner.

You may need to go to fatter secondary jets with the sub stack.

[Cliff R]

I'm not upset in the least.

When I see these threads I'm quickly reminded how many thousands of calls and emails I've had to the shop from folks who absolutely HATE the Edelbrock junk and despite spending another $100 on their tuning kit can't get it to work for chit no matter what they do.

Since I'm retired and have no dog in these fights I just call it like it is from decades of experience with these things.

Matter of fact we have one Edelbrock POS AFB clone in the family. My brother has one on his 1978 GMC grain hauling truck. It's powered by a 427 tall deck Chevy truck engine and over 20 years ago the governor controlled Holley took a crap on him. At the time the best viable replacement (it was harvest season and he needed it to work) was to buy an electric choke Edelbrock Performer series carb for it. It starts, runs and moves the truck around just like it's supposed to, sucks TONS of fuel but who's keeping track when you are hauling close to 50,000 pounds of grain with it. Every 2 to 3 years I get the unfortunate pleasure of having it dropped off here for a top gasket, new N/S assemblies and a complete accl pump assembly.....it was just in here about 4 months ago.

I stock a kit for it to save down time. Takes me about as long to get it back in service as it did to type this. It ends up here for one of two reasons, flooding and/or no pump shot. The soft silicone pump seal Edelbrock imports for those doesn't last long in this new fuel and the pump is a hoaky POS right to start with being made out of soft plastic and the pump end rotates all over the place like it's worn slam out even when they are NIB.

Anyhow, I put the info out there based on direct experience with these things. Like it, don't like, agree with it, don't agree with it, make a copy and use it for toilette paper I could really care less.........IF it helps someone along the way it was worth the effort.......

[Rob in NH]

Thanks for the advice Jon.

[Cliff R]

Kenth, I work or have worked on just about EVERYTHING here so my experiences go far beyond one or two different types of carburetors.

I also do a LOT of carburetors for small power equipment, generators, chain saws, string trimmers, garden tillers, etc. I also do quite a few tractor carburetors. I've also built a good many AFB (Webber) clones for Marine applications as they replaced the Quadrajet Marine carburetors in the mid 1990's.

I've dyno and track tested Edelbrock AFB and AVS clones and not impressed with them anyplace. Even with that said if you want a carb that will move your ride from point A to point B with relatively decent success till it takes a dump they are fine for that.

Here's the down and dirty with them. The brass floats sold for them are crap. I've had a 100 percent failure rate with them leaking and sinking to the bottom of the bowl. Some sink right away, others may be a few months or years but the soldered seams aren't that great or this new fuel is eating their lead freee solder, not sure.

They accl pumps are very poorly constructed and the seals are NOT ethanol compatible despite what they are advertising. They are a soft silicone type product, not an elostomer designed to be resistant to fuel with alcohol in it. I suspect the tips of the fuel inlet needles are also NOT made from a high quality flouroelostomer as they fail as well. Not nearly as often as the pump seals but I've had a good many of those carbs in here flooding from that issue.

Some "cobbling" is also involved with the installation. Most folks just hack saw the stock steel fuel line or slightly better cut it with a tubing cutter. Then they run 2-3' of rubber hose back around to the fuel inlet held in place with a couple of hose clamps, not taking care that it doesn't rub on something in it's path. NO ONE takes the time to even put a bulge on the cut steel line so it's not an engine fire in the making.

Since the factory calibrations aren't that great and they have some design flaws included the user ends up another $100 or so in one of Edelbrock tuning "kits" or at a minimum tuning parts to get them dialed in. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if they don't count on that happening as they get another nice bonus on each one they sell. On a good note the primary side is super easy to tune as the PP assemblies and primary metering rods/pp springs are easy to replace with a nice selection of two-stepped rods for that purpose.

They are square flange and often require an adapter or different intake. Edelbrock is counting on the latter to make another couple hundred bucks on the sale. Many factory and/or drop base air cleaners have trouble clearing them, so more cobbling for many Ram Air, Shaker or Cowl induction equipped cars.

I'll stop there, going to go out and spend my time doing more important things like throwing a few sticks for my dogs........

[Ram Air IV Jack]

I've seen a lot of these Edelbrock AFB carbs on many cars for years now. I guess because they're cheap and readily available, many people have them regardless of the performance flaws!!!

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Ram Air IV Jack

I've seen a lot of these Edelbrock AFB carbs on many cars for years now. I guess because they're cheap and readily available, many people have them regardless of the performance flaws!!!

Every Autozone and OReillys in the country stocks one of the E-AFB's. That's a bunch!!! The Holley 1850 used to be the default stocked carb.

When I try to explain to some folks, along the lines of what Cliff said in post 29, they look at me like I'm BSing them...

[Formulajones]

That's true Jack, they are everywhere. I've seen my fair share of them here. Usually the car is here for something else and I pray they don't mention carb issues, lol. Because honestly I don't care to dinker with them or the cobbled up mess they've done to install it. Right off the bat they usually require another $100 spent for tuning parts, as mentioned already, and owners already squirm when I mention just that. Basically because the owners are cheap anyway, that's why the carb is on there in the first place. Most owners only care about getting from the house to a car show anyway.

[JSchmitz]

I bought a total of one AFB's. It was a new Carter 625. Installed it on a mild SBC. It ended up working pretty good. That was after throwing the full tuning kit at it. Fought a secondary transition stumble.

[Cliff R]

"Most owners only care about getting from the house to a car show anyway."

+1, 2, and 3!.......

In most cases the end user only cares if the car starts and moves under it's own power and doesn't stall out, hesitate, stumble, bog too bad, or give them any major issues during that deal. If it's not flawless or sucks down a lot more fuel than it should they really don't care as the car only gets driven a couple of times a year, they don't go far, and are just happy it got them to the car show and back to the house without ending up on a roll-back.

This is also why parts that may not be all that great get good and sometimes even RAVING reviews. Once "vested" in something, good, bad or just so-so folks tend to want to spread that "love" around a little anyhow, and in many cases fixing what they already head was way outside their job description, so it didn't work for chit no matter how much effort they put into it. So with all that in mind the accuracy of their reviews and ratings will be somewhat bias more times than not.

You also have to consider with this Internet rating system crap that there will be folks who give an excellent product a bad review because it took too long to show up after they placed the order, or they didn't like the color of the package it came in.

In any case I'll just call it like it is, the vast majority of cars (and trucks) I see at any local car show will have Edelbock AFB clones on them. I do NOT see very many AVS clones....why?........Because they are TWICE the cost......

I've seen Edelbrock push those POS AFB clones for less than $200. I suspect "seconds" or "reconditioned" units folks sent back to them, but doesn't matter, cheap gets the sale when it comes to these things......FWIW.......

[Rob in NH]

Could someone post a picture of how they plumbed the fuel line for an edelbrock?

[Tom Vaught]

I have run several Original CARTER CORP AFBs and was very happy with them.
A 64-66 Pontiac 389 AFB was very smooth and performed well on both a 389 and 400
engine in my 64 GTO.

I am not going to speak about the "Other stuff" out there.
I will say when you can get a 4400+ pound 63 Catalina Wagon to run CONSISTENT
12.06 ETs in the quarter with a basic hydraulic camshaft and cast iron head and block
455 engine, you know how to tune an engine and Carter AFB Carbs.

Lots of much lighter Tempest/Firebird "race cars" will not run that well with 800 lbs
less weight.

The new carb stuff is fishing for "bait" (suckers) lol..

Tom V.

[tom s]

1912 is a square bore