[69hardtop]

Two years ago i bought a 1970 455 that had sat on the ground in a shed in Michigan since 1983. When i pulled the drain plug I got out about 3 qts of oil, black but not as bad as i expected. Some vermin had gotten into the intake and a couple of the open head intake ports and left some straw and acorns but the pan had oil…….

[MarkS57]

^^ that's what's tough about this. The OP mentions pulling it out so assume it was in something. Where does 6 qts of oil go? Wonder if there was evil afoot somewhere...image if it happened way earlier on and the OP started it up with no oil... Just saying...

[tjs72lemans]

Hopefully you didn't have any enemies and one of them slipped over and drained your oil on the ground to get at you.

[Sirrotica]

Parked outside you can leak 6 quarts of oil on the ground, and over 10 years, and there won't be any trace of it. A rust hole in the pan could easily empty the pan over 10 years.

Microscopic bacteria actually will eat petrochemicals over time, that is what happens to oil spilled in the ocean by off shore rigs when the leak millions of barrels into the ocean.

As I said, take it out and inspect it if you really want to preserve the engine, If you don't really care about it, roll the dice with flushes, etc. Just like Dirty Harry said, "Do you feel lucky"?

The thing is, if you spend time and money flushing the engine out, put oil in it, only to find a pin hole due to rust from the inside, now you're back to pulling the pan anyway, unless you want to use an epoxy (JB Weld) to stop the leak. Lots of ways to go, but many are sketchy, and you're guessing, and testing your good fortune.

I'll add that I have been down this road before, and tried the cheap, easy way, and it cost me money, and time. So speaking from someone that has more bad luck than good, I'd have a look see inside.

Ya ever notice that every time VGG does one of these find a car, get it running, and drive it back home, he either doesn't make it, or when he starts running the car on the road, (after his low dollar "Restoration"), it has a blue cloud behind it? Roadkill has about the same results, sometimes they get lucky, and all the stars, and planets align, but I see more failures than successes.....

[dataway]

Will the engine turn over by hand??

[jhein]

Originally Posted by 2BadZ

It original came with the 403 Olds, but at some point I switched it to a Pontiac 455 (maybe 73??) I still have that engine sitting around, separated into complete block, heads, and intake separate. Right now it has a 400 Pontiac in it, maybe 76 or 77. (It's been awhile)

The 400 you have is not original to the car and is likely a 557 block, so nothing special. If I was pulling that motor out, I would most likely not put it back in. I'd go with the '73 455 block you have. Unless you're just hoping you can do a minimal refresh of the 400 and get it running without spending a bunch of money.

If you really want to preserve the 400, I agree with everyone who says pull it and open it up. OTOH, if you don't really care about that motor and you just want to see if you can get it to run without killing it, then you could try to flush it. But if I had to bet, I'd bet it won't survive a flush and run.

Just to point out the obvious, in those "will it run" videos, they don't really care if it runs and survives or not. Either way they get the clicks.

[TxSportCoupe]

I’d pull the plugs. Oil the cylinders with my favorite spray. Pull the valve covers. Wash over both heads with Diesel or kerosene and let it run out the bottom till “clean”. Fill it with your favorite high zinc oil, new filter, spin it over a few times to prime and, bust it off. If it lives great. If not, you now have bonafide reason to open it up. It’s gonna run though. Then you’ll see where the oil is going.


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[2BadZ]

Originally Posted by Vroom_vroom

Man I’d take it the pan off at the least pop the valve covers and see how bad it looks in there.
Took a 327 fuelie apart last year after sitting for the last 40 years and good god it took a lot of sludge cleaning. Should have sent it out but the car value came into play.

As a first step, I will pull the valve covers. It'll likely be in the spring before I do that.

At present, any place I own that I could work on it, is filled with two snowmobiles, a quad, a sxs, and another car.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As a first step, I will pull the valve covers. It'll likely be in the spring before I do that.

At present, any place I own that I could work on it, is filled with two snowmobiles, a quad, a sxs, and another car.

[2BadZ]

Originally Posted by 69hardtop

Two years ago i bought a 1970 455 that had sat on the ground in a shed in Michigan since 1983. When i pulled the drain plug I got out about 3 qts of oil, black but not as bad as i expected. Some vermin had gotten into the intake and a couple of the open head intake ports and left some straw and acorns but the pan had oil…….

I was expecting the same situation. Baffled by the no oil thingy. Oil filter was almost rusted out, but still holding oil. Oil pan was never rusty; still has original blue paint. Maybe it rusted from inside out?? Doesn't seem to be much depth to any sludge that might be in there.

Anyway, at this point it is what it is. Quite obvious there's no oil in there, so I will work from that.

[2BadZ]

Originally Posted by tjs72lemans

Hopefully you didn't have any enemies and one of them slipped over and drained your oil on the ground to get at you.

I had mentioned that possibly to my wife, but here reply included words such as "you're" and "crazy"

It was never drained on the ground or I'd have seen some sign of it, and it's highly unlikely someone drained it and took the oil away. And considering where it was parked, it would be very highly unlikely someone would do it, or even have a reason to do it.

[2BadZ]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Parked outside you can leak 6 quarts of oil on the ground, and over 10 years, and there won't be any trace of it. A rust hole in the pan could easily empty the pan over 10 years.

Microscopic bacteria actually will eat petrochemicals over time, that is what happens to oil spilled in the ocean by off shore rigs when the leak millions of barrels into the ocean.

As I said, take it out and inspect it if you really want to preserve the engine, If you don't really care about it, roll the dice with flushes, etc. Just like Dirty Harry said, "Do you feel lucky"?

The thing is, if you spend time and money flushing the engine out, put oil in it, only to find a pin hole due to rust from the inside, now you're back to pulling the pan anyway, unless you want to use an epoxy (JB Weld) to stop the leak. Lots of ways to go, but many are sketchy, and you're guessing, and testing your good fortune.

I'll add that I have been down this road before, and tried the cheap, easy way, and it cost me money, and time. So speaking from someone that has more bad luck than good, I'd have a look see inside.

Ya ever notice that every time VGG does one of these find a car, get it running, and drive it back home, he either doesn't make it, or when he starts running the car on the road, (after his low dollar "Restoration"), it has a blue cloud behind it? Roadkill has about the same results, sometimes they get lucky, and all the stars, and planets align, but I see more failures than successes.....

If the oil is gone, and not just sludge, your explanation could be right.

I may go the flush route to start. My goal was to get it started before I put any time and money into it. If I have to tear apart either engine, it would like be the 455.

[2BadZ]

Originally Posted by dataway

Will the engine turn over by hand??

I did not try it. That was going to be my next step after I changed the oil.

[2BadZ]

Originally Posted by jhein

The 400 you have is not original to the car and is likely a 557 block, so nothing special. If I was pulling that motor out, I would most likely not put it back in. I'd go with the '73 455 block you have. Unless you're just hoping you can do a minimal refresh of the 400 and get it running without spending a bunch of money.

If you really want to preserve the 400, I agree with everyone who says pull it and open it up. OTOH, if you don't really care about that motor and you just want to see if you can get it to run without killing it, then you could try to flush it. But if I had to bet, I'd bet it won't survive a flush and run.

Just to point out the obvious, in those "will it run" videos, they don't really care if it runs and survives or not. Either way they get the clicks.

I know about the originality of the engine and what that 400 is. I put it in there myself. I haven't decided yet how important it is for it to survive. I weighing out the scenarios you mentioned. Thanks

[tonyk]

You can buy a borescope cheap on Amazon for $40. send that up the drain hole, down a pushrod hole, in the gas tank. Should confirm any suspicions that you need to pull the motor and freshen everything.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by tonyk

You can buy a borescope cheap on Amazon for $40. send that up the drain hole, down a pushrod hole, in the gas tank. Should confirm any suspicions that you need to pull the motor and freshen everything.

Now there's a good idea.

[2BadZ]

It's been awhile and the car has continued to sit. My grandson is now 12 and is showing an interest in the Trans Am. Good sign.
Since my previous post, I freed up the rear brakes and got the car into my garage. I pulled the valve covers and this is what I found. (see the attachment )
A couple of things.
1. I think I can clean up this area of the heads with some vacuuming, brushing, spray lubricant, etc.
2. My buddy has one of those cameras that I can put up the drain hole and down a push rod hole which I'll do after I clean up number 1
3. My goal is to get it running on minimal work, minimal dollars and I'll go from there.
4. Someone mentioned putting diesel down the engine but a fellow I know who between him and his brothers, have rebuilt several TAs and their engines, says there's a seal in the engine that diesel will destroy requiring a complete tear down. Any thoughts on the diesel thingy?

Any thoughts, suggestions on any of this will be appreciated.

[Skip Fix]

From looking at those rockers it needs to be pulled.

[Jim Moshier]

after seeing those pic......Yeah I too would pull it and do a complete tear down. The rust is too bad to let slide!.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by 2BadZ

As a first step, I will pull the valve covers. It'll likely be in the spring before I do that.

At present, any place I own that I could work on it, is filled with two snowmobiles, a quad, a sxs, and another car.

BWAHAHHAAAA!!!! Spoken like a true CANADIAN!!!!. Sicamous BC here, and yup, bout the same. Cars, sleds dirtbikes, RV trailers.

But any rate, Yeah that motor needs to come out and get opened up for inspection and cleaning at least.

[steve25]

That top end is shot!

Only the bare heads will be salvageable if they are not cracked.

Even if you get it started You will never get enough of that rust off to not have enough in the oil to not chew things up like bearings, rings. Cylinder walls , cam & lifters.

Time to yank it and tare it down.

As