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#1
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1977 Trans Am; 1st owner modified??
I was speaking last night with a local that I have known for probably a little over twenty years;
Long story short, he is the second owner of his 1977 Trans Am; Brentwood Brown, W72/4 spd, snowflakes. He bought the car in 1985 off of what he believes to be the first owner; Years ago he pulled a beautiful build sheet off of his gas tank, and it's for his car. He also has PHS (Canadian invoice) on the car. The car has a build date (from build sheet) of January 11th, and a shipping date (from the PHS supplied document) of January 17th. The car has two things that I am incline to explain away as being modified under the first owners term; 1) the paint on it is 1978 Chesterfield Brown, not 1977 Brentwood Brown 2) no documentation supports this car being built with Hurst T-roof, but it has had Hurst hatches the entire time he has owned it. I suggested that either a roof swap was done between 1977 & 1985, or a wrecked Hurst hatch car was used as a donor, and template for the swap. It would seem logical to me that if it had a roof swap, and the car hada proper paint job during that time that all the original code 69 paint would seem to have disappeared under the wrong (for model year) code 69 paint. What do you guys think? Since it's not my car, I am not at liberty to share the documents.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#2
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Highly doubt a roof swap, those deals came later, first started running across t-top roof swaps in the mid 80's. Entire car repaints were common, & more common once the crap water based lacquers were introduced.
In the late 70's & early 80's, there were shops in many decent sized cities that installed T-tops, sunroofs, & the hideous opera windows. Hurst, American, Cars & Concepts tops, all were avail through such shops. Sometimes new car dealerships had tops installed to make a sale. Good friend at the time (late '79) had aftermarket t-tops on the 4" chopped roof of his orange '75 Chevy short narrow bed pickup. Def a low seller, have yet to run across another GM pickup of that era with t-tops.
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. |
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#3
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oh?
I thought the Hurst hatches were never offered outside of the Hurst facility?
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#4
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My 77 also has the Hurst T- tops and no mention of them on the build sheet. It is my understanding that these were dealer installed when the cars were new and that is why it does not appear on the build sheet. Also I knew a local guy with a 77 with the t-tops and his does not show them on the build sheet either.
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#5
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It’s been a long tim, who knows.
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🧩 Burds Parts, Finding those Hard to Find PCs, no Fisher Price Toys Here Just Say No To 8” Flakes F ire B irds 🇮🇱 |
#6
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#7
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Please forgive my ignorance;
But if it wasn't a factory option (eg: not in PMD issued literature) I had understood that the factory would not have been involved in getting options added; Wouldn't the facotry invoice show a shipping route to the ordering dealer? Maybe ordering dealers could re-route cars once they left the factory?
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#8
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I meant no offense, I am trying to put the pieces of the puzzle together myslef. I read, was told by others and thought for years that aftermarket t tops i.e. American, CnC, etc. were typically done locally once they hit the dealers. After talking with the fellow at the show and him showing me pics of the factory things took a different turn. I have asked around with 'people in the know' and have yet to get a definitive answer as how the process was achieved. My PHS shows the dealer invoice but nothing at all noted about the tops, which I understand. I have run into a dead end at this point. No idea how the process went or even the extra cost.
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#9
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right out of HS, briefly dated a young lady whose dad had bought her a new brown '79 Esprit, then he paid to have CnC tops installed locally. Do remember those tops were quite large, & she seldom removed them.
More info on CnC tops, note the CnC topped 78 Camaro parted by, believe his name was "Joe". He & his buddy were early posters on the TAC site. Https://www.firebirdtransamparts.com...tops/candc.htm note the installation shop; "G CLASSICS" & installation date January 30 1979.
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. |
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#10
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I have a 77 and early 78 SE that both have Hurst tops. Neither show them on the PHS.
The 78 has a mint build sheet, but I can't remember if they're mentioned on it. I'll dig out and grab a pic for you guys.
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
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#11
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I had a 1975 Hurst Olds Cutlass I was trying to purchase from a dealer in 1979 that had damaged hatches/roof section. At that time it was sent into an authorized center in Canada for the repair. It came back with the roof section replaced and new Hurst hatch panels. This would indicate there were ways of getting the work completed elsewhere.
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#12
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Ok so I have some info. My 77 SE PHS doesn't show the Hurst tops as an option, neither does my 78 PHS show it, however my 78 build sheet does show the tops listed as an option. I grabbed some pics for you guys.
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
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#13
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For '77 & 78 models, the Y82 Special Edition package INCLUDES the Hurst hatch roof treatment. Thats why you're not seeing a separate option listed on the invouce for Hurst hatches. Have owned two '77 Y81 4spd projects. Currently, one of my projects is a 77 Y82 4spd, built several weeks after your '77 Y82 4sod.
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Buzzards gotta eat... same as worms. Last edited by 'ol Pinion head; 12-22-2022 at 04:38 PM. |
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#14
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Quote:
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"Those poor souls have made the fatal mistake of surrounding us. Now we can fire in any direction" 1970 Trans Am RAIII 4 speed 1971 Trans Am 5.3 LM7 1977 Trans Am W72 Y82 1987 Grand National |
#15
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If it was an extra cost option, it will show up on the PHS; If it was a part of an option package, it will not show up on PHS, because that specific options RPO is tied to the package. In the case of the original query, this guys car is NOT a special edition, it's a Brentwood brown W72/4spd car
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
#16
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Also, Hurst T-Tops were a popular aftermarket accessory, many people bought hard top T/A's off the showroom floor, and then years down the track may have gone to a local shop or back to the dealer to have them installed. Hurst tops were being installed aftermarket all the time on plenty of Firebirds, even early 70's ones, I've seen half a dozen 70-72 T/A's that had Hurst/Texas T-Tops installed on them by the original owners. Pontiac may not have had them installed from factory before the car was shipped to the dealer, but that didn't stop the dealer buying a kit after the car was delivered to them to have the work done after locally. |
#17
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Yep, they ruined many cars with those cut in T Tops, if you have not ever owned one you wouldn’t understand!Lol! They were not a completely engineered package like the Fisher factory T Tops.
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#18
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#19
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As to the originality of the T-tops on the Brown '77 belonging to your friend Jon, I would expect the GM of Canada docs to mention them if they were originally ordered on the car. Those docs throw everything and the kitchen sink on there.
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"Spend all your time and money on that Pontiac GTO pile" - The Go-Gos, 1981 Last edited by starlightblack; 12-29-2022 at 03:56 PM. |
#20
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/\ he trumps this with a beautiful build sheet that he found decades ago;
the car has no t-roof option.
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1970 Formula 400 Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car. Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left. 1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing) 2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs) |
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