[yellow1098]

So I love my 4L80e overdrive in my TA. It’s a stage 3 good for up to 1,000 hp and I’m running a deep pan but it sits way to low and has a few little scratches from small bumps. My question is……..

Do I have to run a deep pan for the stage 3? Can I just go to the stock pan that gives me much better ground clearance without weakening the transmission?

Thanks as always

[grivera]

What vendor and do they require it for warranty Re: cooling capacity?

My 4l80e is from Hughes Performance and even though it’s spec’d with a shallow pan they sent it with a deep pan and I had clearance issues as well. They sent me the shallow pan in exchange an all is well again.

[Sirrotica]

The deep pan is for extra capacity, and of course the more fluid you have, the cooler the transmission will run. As long as you're not having a heat problem, you could likely run the shallow pan. Probably best to ask the builder before switching, but I can't really see any drawbacks to running the OEM pan.

To offset the loss in cooling capacity, you should be able to use an auxiliary cooler, if needed.

I own 3 chevy trucks with the 4L80E, and although I'm running OEM engines in front of them, they're about as tough as an anvil, even in stock form. The longevity of these transmissions is why I would only use one behind a Pontiac engine. They were intended for HD usage behind larger displacement gas engines, and diesels, when they were designed. 250,000 miles is a reasonable expectancy in a truck when taken care of. I did ruin one 4L80E due to a rusted leaking cooler line in one of my trucks, but that was my fault, not the transmissions fault. Even though I was towing a trailer when the cooling line failed. I fixed the cooling line, and the transmission still went 4 more years before it completely failed. It was wounded though, when it was run low for fluid.

The 4L80E also don't need every internal component replaced with billet parts to last behind big torque, and HP engines. They also fit most muscle car floor pans without a hassle, contrary to what many people post here. There have been plenty of members on this board that have installed a 4L80E in their cars, with zero floor pan clearance problems to silence that claim. I think the controller scares off many prospective swaps, but they can be run manually without a controller if you so choose to.

[JLMounce]

Yup,
Have a stage 2 (750 hp) 4l80e going into my firebird. Using the factory shallow pan for this one, but I do have a large auxiliary cooler mounted to the front of the rad support.

Only thing that was needed in my car to get the trans to fit properly was using 90* banjo fittings for the cooler lines. No BFH needed.

If you're running a cooler and you're not using a trans brake or anything like that, I would think the shallow pan should be fine.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Is Stage 3 like 3/4 race or something? My 4L80 has the stock shallow pan, and like a TH400, the deep pan is nice but not necessary.

Shallow and deep pans have the same heat rejection ability so cooling diff is mooot.

I use brushless fans on the remote cooler for best fluid temp result.

[Sirrotica]

This is from Jake's Performance, "stage 3" description and price list:

Stage 3 – Warranted 1000+ HP
The Stage 3 4L80E build adds the billet input shaft and rollerized billet forward hub for applications above 750 HP. This build will handle well over 1000 HP assuming moderate RPM range (less than 7000 rpm), average or lighter weight vehicle, and no large N2O usage.

Price Build # Build Description
$4565 4L80-3A Auto Shift for computer controlled applications
$4730 4L80-3FM Full manual forward pattern
$5665 4L80-3RMTB Reverse manual Transbrake
$5005 4L80-3ATB1 Automatic shift with Manual Low Transbrake (transbrake can only be activated in manual low position)
$5115 4L80-3FMTB1 Full manual forward pattern with Manual Low Transbrake
$5390 4L80-3ATB3 Auto Shift with D3 transbrake
$5500 4L80-3FMTB3 Full manual shift with D3 brake (allows 2nd or even 3rd gear launch)

Of course other builders may have a "stage 3 option also, but Jake's is probably the most well known specializing in the 4L80E. He also has a "stage 4".

[Sirrotica]

This is from Jake's Performance, "stage 3" description and price list:

Stage 3 – Warranted 1000+ HP
The Stage 3 4L80E build adds the billet input shaft and rollerized billet forward hub for applications above 750 HP. This build will handle well over 1000 HP assuming moderate RPM range (less than 7000 rpm), average or lighter weight vehicle, and no large N2O usage.

Price Build # Build Description
$4565 4L80-3A Auto Shift for computer controlled applications
$4730 4L80-3FM Full manual forward pattern
$5665 4L80-3RMTB Reverse manual Transbrake
$5005 4L80-3ATB1 Automatic shift with Manual Low Transbrake (transbrake can only be activated in manual low position)
$5115 4L80-3FMTB1 Full manual forward pattern with Manual Low Transbrake
$5390 4L80-3ATB3 Auto Shift with D3 transbrake
$5500 4L80-3FMTB3 Full manual shift with D3 brake (allows 2nd or even 3rd gear launch)

Of course other builders may have a "stage 3 option also, but Jake's is probably the most well known specializing in the 4L80E. He also has a "stage 4", as well as a "stage 5".

[yellow1098]

Thank you guys! I’m definitely leaning towards swapping back to the stock Pan as I do have a great trans cooler and the temps are solid……I am at right under 700hp but I don’t spin it past 7k and I don’t run a trans break

It’s computer controlled with my Holley Terminator X

[grivera]

Who built it?

[yellow1098]

A local racing transmission shop in Jacksonville

[grivera]

Cool

[yellow1098]

I was right about to pull the trigger on one of the big builders and a couple guys at the track ran this shops trannys and raved about him and the price was wayyyy better ……took a lot longer than I’d like though and his communication was ****

[grivera]

Interesting- I had a similar but opposite experience. I tried for several months to get a 4L80e by a local shop that builds for some Street Outlaws racers - word is he builds an exceptional trans. I played the wait game for 4 months and finally decided to order a Hughes Performance Stage 2 trans vía Jegs. I had it in about 8 weeks. Very happy with my decision.

[Formulajones]

Just for documentation purposes, there are quite a few depths of aftermarket pans offered.

I've ordered 2 Hughes 4l80's for myself and they both came with different depth aftermarket aluminum pans. And that's just the Hughes brand. There are many others.

The deeper Hughes pan for sure will give ground clearance issues even on a stock ride height a-body. Their shallower version fits perfectly fine with plenty of room.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Those prices better include the Converter. 4L80 is much tougher to rebuild that TH400, but it is all labor time and inspection schmartz, add materials and geez should be half those prices. Customer needs that money to adapt-in.

[grivera]

OP - sorry for the hi-Jack.

The Hughes Performance 25-1 is their 1991-1995 case with 750 horsepower rating and is $2447 + $500 core charge via Jegs. When I spoke with them directly they said it’s actually rated at 800 hp. It looks like a brand new trans with all new components and updated cooling mods done. A dyno sheet is included with the trans. After placing my order all other communication was via Hughes Performance and their customer service was great.

As Jason mentioned, no trans tunnel mods needed in a 69 Firebird, only the banjo fittings. https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...0002&langId=-1

[Formulajones]

Here are the differences in pan depth on the 2 4L80's here. The deeper pan is by a large margin, deeper. Both of these are Hughes pans.

The deeper one on the Chevelle and the shallow version on the GTO.

Both cars at stock ride height. The shallow one is tucked up in there pretty much like a stock pan, there is no fear of ever hitting that on anything as everything else on the car is lower (ie: engine oil pan, exhaust etc...)

The Chevelle is a different story. That trans pan hangs lower than everything else on the car, including the 2" hooker super comps, the exhaust system, the engine oil pan etc.... Not really a fan and I have lightly touched it on one occasion where I dropped both front tires over a speed bump too fast and as the front suspension compressed, I felt the pan touch briefly. We do have some speed bumps on steroids around here.
Third pic is a perspective of how low it actually does hang compared to everything else.

[JLMounce]

I purchased my 4l80e as a rebuildable core. It had come out of a 92 K1500 work truck that had rolled. So I'm using the pan that came along with that.

The shop that rebuilt it said it had likely been rebuilt within 30-50k miles previously. I as well went with an early model as the case design makes it a bit easier to get in the tunnel. We targeted what would be a Jakes stage 2 type build, or similar to the Hughes transmission. Shift kit that direct feeds the drums, removal of the wave plates, in favor of additional clutches, pump and valvebody modifications.

My cost from the builder was $2050.00 and I purchased the core for $400.00

[Sirrotica]

Another reason that IMO, the 4L80E is a better investment, nearly any competent transmission shop can build a 4L80E. By the 200-4R fans own words, "There are maybe 10 builders in the whole US that can properly build a 200-4R". If the number of people that can properly build one is that small, out of 334 million people, that's a small pool to pull from.

Finding a suitable core is also a growing problem, since the transmissions were only made from 1981 through 1990, and was never available in trucks, only RWD cars. 4L80E was produced for over 2 decades in light duty trucks, many more cores are available. Looking on Marketplace, there are many more 4L80E transmissions for sale, compared to 200-4Rs. Many of the 4L80E's are still advertised as running, working transmissions, the 200s are usually cores only.

The highly desirable cores were only turbo 3.8 cars, and the montecarlo SS, and I believe the 442. I have a plain jane core, but I'll never use it.

[Formulajones]

According to my conversation with Steve at Hughes, even the 4L80E cores are getting harder to find. Hughes buys them in bulk when they can. Some builds go to places like Jegs and Summit while others are walk in or mail order customers directly.

Core prices at Hughes have gone up as a direct result of lack of availability and the fact that prices of the cores they find have gone up themselves. Yards are charging more for them.

He gave me the impression that 4L80E sales are hot.

If anyone is contemplating a 4L80E swap, I don't think things are going to get any cheaper.

For the record, at events like Goodguys, Barrett Jackson etc... Hughes runs a 10% sale on all products. I'm lucky to have them local to me and talk to Steve at these events. It's what pushed me to finally pull the trigger.