[steve25]

Sorry this is the picture I did not post.

[glhs#116]

OK. So I've been doing a bunch of googling and reading since I don't want to go off half cocked and there's a bunch of things I could just "do". I'm thinking of doing an oversized timesert on the #7 intake rocker stud hole. But the kit is like close to £200 with shipping etc and I really don't know why it shouldn't seal. The other studs seem to, right? I'm thinking of ruling out intake valve seal. Not only have I replaced it more than once but I have seen people say that even without a seal that much oil shouldn't leak on the plug that fast. I've seen a number of people with a similar issue from an intake that just isn't sealing up properly. I know I once had an issue where the valley pan gasket stopped a corner of the intake seating perfectly but I just can't see that drawing enough oil. I mean, I am having to add a litre in under 1000 miles. It's burning a fair amount somehow. I kinda think that headbolt hole should be sealed now but how can I tell?

Let's not forget the number one reason I doubt this is bottom end-related.. Before I took the heads off to do this porting I didn't have oil burning or fouling of plugs.. Coincidence does happen but colour me sceptical.

If this was your head and your situation how would you handle it? Is there a way I can actually trace where the oil is coming from?

Sam

[Jay S]

You might be able to spray some Either running with the valve cover off around the possible trouble spots on #7 and treat it like a vacuum leak.

Testing it with Aerosol Dykem would also be an option. Usually something you do while it is on the flow bench while pulling a vacuum though, not on the car. Something to consider though.


I think swapping out the head gasket to the Cometic so the head bolt is not open to the valley was a good suggestion. My guess is the problem still is coming from a head bolt boss or porosity at the pushrod pinch, and was something created from the port work, not leaking past threads or a bad guide seal. But the problem is isolated now to number 7, so I would make sure all those thing are ok.

[steve25]

Sam i am in agreement with your assessment in your post #120 that this issue is all still just Head related.

[NeighborsComplaint]

At this point, I'd be buying some dished pistons, rings and these heads ... https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=863707

You can ball hone the cylinders, assemble it and let her rip.

[steve25]

Good detective work Sam!

You’ll get it all good with this last go around.

[GTO-relic]

OK kid here ya go,
if Mondello can break through,
you can break through,
it's standard procedure since the first RA V, SD421, SD455's back in the old days
just put a sleeve on the bolt, just like the pushrod tube.
don't sweat the little stuff

[GTO-relic]

btw fwiw, practically all or most of the top running NHRA Super Stock engines, have devcon or a similar epoxy inside the intake ports. they have to, in order to move the port volume around and stay within rules, while straightening the port and gaining some flow. that's one of the tricks they use to get 350" SBC engines with a Qjet to make 660HP. it won't fall out if done right.

[GTO-relic]

ps- if you want a fully adjustable PCV, there's a guy in Pa. sells them, everything is billet aluminum machined on CNC from scratch. I bought the whole setup it works great. Basically you can adjust the size of the orifice going from the valley pan or valve cover vent, to the intake/carb base vacuum fitting. It will pull it ALL OUT. just make sure you have a good baffle in place in the valve cover. I preferred to run it in the valley pan because that is already heavily baffled away under the cover, to not draw in liquid oil spray. The unit also has ability to just remove the adjustment screw feature, and run it wide open, but retain the check valve in case of a backfire in the intake. You won't see any oil around the filler or breather cap, that's for sure. Google adjustable PCV. They are made in Kingston, Pa. by a ma/pa/son outfit. Nice people. Not cheap but worth it. They went so far as to flow test all the original PCV's and develop an adjustable one in the correct range. The problem is, all the replacement PCV valves do NOT have the correct calibration ! Back in the day 1960-70's a ton of defective factory replacement PCV valves were made, so to the unsuspecting public, and cars were pulling oil up like crazy, if the PCV was in an unbaffled valve cover. So an adjustable one is a great idea.

here ya go
https://mewagner.com/?p=444

https://www.classicindustries.com/pr...ce=1&gclsrc=ds

[glhs#116]

Just a quick update. I've got the Mahle head gaskets. Looks legit. It's going to seal up the engine side of those headbolt holes for sure. Rest of the holes look the same place. Thickness looks the same. The bore size is smaller (but with just as large valve cutouts). My caliper makes the bore size still roughly 4.250" which is still more than I need so I think this should be something that can only help.

FelPro 1016 on the Mahle 3494VC


Sam

[glhs#116]

Just a little update to say that things are a little less mysterious now. I'm really determined not to do a half job this time because I am really quite "done" with this whole issue.

I got the driver's side head off. This is the one with #7 that ingests and burns all the oil. My two heads were obviously built on different stations or something because my passenger side head the rocker stud holes don't break through. However, on the driver's side the really break through hard.

driver's side rocker holes


I didn't think this was the main problem but I didn't like having such a large suction hole especially when it seemed like the threads were proving hard to seal. I knew the holes were so deep there was some good depth to work with. After trying some rubber plugs as seals I realised that the best plug would probably be a solid lump of Right Stuff black RTV. So I put some in the bottom of each rocker hole then screwed in the rocker stud. I wiped off the excess from the inside of the port with my finger. I think it will prove an effectively "blind" hole now.

plugged rocker hole


Nonetheless, my investigation with the vacuum suggested to me that a lot of the oil -- maybe all of it -- was coming in through the headbolt hole side. This was a bit odd since I sleeved these holes last go round. The sleeve is visible from inside the port and looks intact.

Well, I got to shining the light around and I thought I saw something in the sleeve from a certain angle. I had a little bit of the tube stock left over so I was game for driving it out to have a look.

what I saw


I drove it out (which wasn't as easy as you might think since I had loctited it in there) and -- yup -- that would, er, be a problem...

a sleeve with a view


Sam

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by glhs#116

After trying some rubber plugs as seals I realised that the best plug would probably be a solid lump of Right Stuff black RTV. So I put some in the bottom of each rocker hole then screwed in the rocker stud. I wiped off the excess from the inside of the port with my finger. I think it will prove an effectively "blind" hole now.

1. I would not want a lump of RTV Silicone to come loose inside the intake port, and make it's way into the cylinder. The RTV Silicone will be exposed to manifold vacuum, significant air velocity pulses, and gasoline (liquid droplets, and vapor.)

2. Most RTV Silicone is not compatible with gasoline. Gets soft, degrades, loses integrity.

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-maker-7-5-oz/

Under the "Instructions" tab:

" NOTE: Not for use as a head gasket or on parts in contact with gasoline."

The sooner you remove the RTV Silicone, the better.




How deep is the rocker stud hole below the actual rocker stud? Can you thread the hole the full length, and then screw-in a brass or aluminum set screw into the hole from the bottom, sealed with Loctite thread locker AND LOCTITE "ACTIVATOR"?

If this were me, I'd go back to using Loctite 592 thread sealer on the rocker studs, and the aforementioned activator. You tried the sealer before, but not with activator. Probably wouldn't need the set-screw with this method.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[glhs#116]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

1. I would not want a lump of RTV to come loose inside the intake port, and make it's way into the cylinder. The RTV will be exposed to manifold vacuum, significant air velocity pulses, and gasoline (liquid droplets, and vapor.)

2. Most RTV Silicone is not compatible with gasoline. Gets soft, degrades, loses integrity.

https://www.permatex.com/products/ga...-maker-7-5-oz/

Under the "Instructions" tab:

" NOTE: Not for use as a head gasket or on parts in contact with gasoline."

The sooner you remove the RTV Silicone, the better.

Ah, crap.

It's a good point you make.. My original plan involved a rubber piece of plug (actually a rubber grommit for sealing holes in sheet metal). It filled the hole nicely and had enough height to seal off the "side" of the hole. But I reallised that under suction it could move down a bit on the "port" side and act as a sort of one-way valve (but in the "wrong" direction). Then I thought of sealing it in place with the RTV. And that's when I thought it would be easier to just make the plug *out of* RTV. It would be much easier to plug if the hole broke through straight down. It's the "side cut" shape of it that makes it so hard to make a stable plug. I was also wondering about epoxy but I was chicken to try that. RTV so much easier to work with.

I can just try sealing the threads again. I felt a lot better, though, having something to physically block off that big "suction hole" pulling on the studs..

Originally Posted by Schurkey

How deep is the rocker stud hole below the actual rocker stud? Can you thread the hole the full length, and then screw-in a brass or aluminum set screw into the hole from the bottom, sealed with Loctite thread locker AND LOCTITE "ACTIVATOR"?

If this were me, I'd go back to using Loctite 592 thread sealer on the rocker studs, and the aforementioned activator. You tried the sealer before, but not with activator.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think it’s about 5.5mm from the bottom of the stud to the bottom of the hole. The hole comes up the side, though, maybe 4mm. So there’s not a lot of space where it is clear “straight across” even though there’s a kinda large space under the stud..


Sam

[glhs#116]

Got the new sleeve loctited in and reamed. Seems to be fully intact and the headbolt slides easily through. Onwards..

ok sleeve inside


port side (little fluff from the cleaning cloth stuck in there)


Sam

[steve25]

My hats off to you for staying with it until every possible failure point was fully looked at .

Now you can enjoy that motor running the way it should.��
Ps that’s a thumbs up I gave you.

Why this site is so screwed up with using these I just don’t understand!

[GTO-relic]

hey kid, get a sense of humor, lighten up
we're all kids here. that's what keeps us in this.

[glhs#116]

I might just go haul all of that RTV out somehow.. It was a hell of a thing loosening these studs. The threadlocker had really grabbed nicely. I bet the rocker studs weren't contributing to the oil burning. But I was just trying to settle this kinda "once and for all" since I had so many false fixes so far... It kinda shakes your confidence..

Sam

[Skip Fix]

Glad you found the culprit(s)

All of my E heads have the rocker stud hole into the intake port. First run set I had instructions did not mention sealing threads and at a long idel it would puff smoke. Using Permatex #14 on threads and a blob under the stud hex never and issue. I also put a blob under the head bolt washer on the set KRE sleeved that hole.

SBC Fast burns go into intake port their factory stud has a built in washer under the hex I guess helps seal it.

[glhs#116]

I think you basically can't seal an E head from the top because of the pushrod guide plates. I mean, I guess you could RTV the whole plate down but most people won't. So you basically have to seal the threads or plug the bottom.

Sam

[glhs#116]

I think I was so confused by the continued oil burning after sleeving the headbolt holes that I started suspecting everything else. In a way, finding the big "window" and crack in the old sleeve is a weird kind of relief. It shows me how that cylinder could still have been drawing oil. And it explains why it was associated with things like going round a bend or sudden acceleration. Given the angle of the decks, oil that sloshes into the headbolt holes through the elongated head gasket holes would get drawn up by port suction and make a lot of smoke until that reservoir of oil was all drawn up. Then it would go back to a slow trickle of consumption until the next "slosh". That motion sensitivity was always the most confusing part of this whole deal...

Sam