[P@blo]

Im confused. So you used a laser temperature gun to confirm you are not running hot but are still going to do the cooling mod?

Seems like you are putting your head in the sand here so you can make your 428 out to be special and it is stopping you from moving forward.

[78w72]

The noise you mentioned that you attribute to using dryer duct on the exhaust &/or the ex block off having holes will NOT be fixed or changed by using rhoads lifters... lifters have nothing to do with the noise you heard, they simple reduce the duration & lift by a few degrees at lower rpms.

I explained what an X pipe does for the exhaust, you do not need one but can add one if you want, they are used for a little added power and the position behind collectors is a where most find they make the most power.

Nobody is able to verify the sound you heard or what caused it as they werent there to hear it and so far the description is rather vague. I think you need to move on from guessing at what the noise was or altering your approach to rebuilding the heads or engine work based on that noise. Roads lifters wont change much and arent really needed for a stock 041 cam, they are beneficial on larger cams to help with things like vacuum or idle quality then pump up fully to act like normal lifters after about 2000-2500 rpm.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

The noise you mentioned that you attribute to using dryer duct on the exhaust &/or the ex block off having holes will NOT be fixed or changed by using rhoads lifters... lifters have nothing to do with the noise you heard, they simple reduce the duration & lift by a few degrees at lower rpms.

I explained what an X pipe does for the exhaust, you do not need one but can add one if you want, they are used for a little added power and the position behind collectors is a where most find they make the most power.

Nobody is able to verify the sound you heard or what caused it as they werent there to hear it and so far the description is rather vague. I think you need to move on from guessing at what the noise was or altering your approach to rebuilding the heads or engine work based on that noise. Roads lifters wont change much and arent really needed for a stock 041 cam, they are beneficial on larger cams to help with things like vacuum or idle quality then pump up fully to act like normal lifters after about 2000-2500 rpm.

Thank you for that input, I just got back from the Head Builder and he wants $225/Head plus parts, is that a fair price?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Im confused. So you used a laser temperature gun to confirm you are not running hot but are still going to do the cooling mod?

Seems like you are putting your head in the sand here so you can make your 428 out to be special and it is stopping you from moving forward.

I was told that I can do better with the Engine temp. on this vehicle, I am into the heads now, perhaps if I do this mod. and it cools this Engine say 10 degrees, I won't have to use the extra cooling fans, that I already added and save my Alternator some?

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

I just looked at a schematic that my roommate drew and asked him, " is the number two Piston in forward", see this drawing that I am posting today. Turns out that someone, for some unknown reason, elected to keep number two piston orientated correctly and reversed the rest, is there a race reason for that decision?

[Cliff R]

Quit worrying about orientation and remove the engine, pull out all the rods and pistons and find out what it's wrong? It's likely the "builder" had too many beers the afternoon it was assembled and started putting pistons in thinking the most forward hole was #1 instead of #2. Also likely you may have a few of the connecting rods in backwards where the "flats" on the rods aren't running against each other and the radius side out towardard toward the outsde radiused end of the journals.

It's a pile of poo at this point, time to put on your big boy panties and get really dirty with it!.......IMHO......

[78w72]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Thank you for that input, I just got back from the Head Builder and he wants $225/Head plus parts, is that a fair price?

Cant comment on the price, prices vary depending on location in the country. What matters most is if the shop has a good reputation for doing quality work and are familiar with pontiacs... that shouldnt be an issue with a reputable builder but there are a few pontiac specific details that can be overlooked.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

Quit worrying about orientation and remove the engine, pull out all the rods and pistons and find out what is wrong? It's likely the "builder" had too many beers the afternoon it was assembled and started putting pistons in thinking the most forward hole was #1 instead of #2. Also, it is likely that you may have a few of the connecting Rods backwards where the "flats" on the rods aren't running against each other and the radius side out toward the outside radiused end of the journals.

It's a pile of poo at this point, time to put on your big boy panties and get really dirty with it!.......IMHO......

I will run out and buy a pair of depends, I hear they are on sale at Walmart.

I am sending a photo to see if I drew the way that I need to repair the Piston/Rod orientation saga correctly.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by 78w72

Can't comment on the price, prices vary depending on location in the country. What matters most is if the shop has a good reputation for doing quality work and are familiar with Pontiacs... that shouldn't be an issue with a reputable builder but there are a few Pontiac specific details that can be overlooked.

I told the Shop owner, who grew up in his father's shop and now is 57 years old to Magnaflux the Heads first. The first thing he asked me is, "was there any oil in the water and I replied no".

I asked him to clean, inspect, replace any defective parts and do a Valve job as it was done in the day.

Told him to Shim under the Valve springs for even Spring pressure.

Replace all Exhaust Valve seats.

I will perform the Pontiac cooling mod. myself, once I get the Gaskets from Butlers and I find out whether or not I need to plug the Block or the Heads for Shure, I am almost convinced it will be the Block, because that is where the Factory did it. The 421 mod. consists of drilling the hole, using the gasket as a templet, that the 421 ci motor used, in both the Head and the Block between the center Exhaust Valve/cylinders.

You said: "there are a few Pontiac specific details that can be overlooked".

Mikes Reply: Did I miss anything, because I must call him back on Monday for his analysis.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I was told that I can do better with the Engine temp. on this vehicle, I am into the heads now, perhaps if I do this mod. and it cools this Engine say 10 degrees, I won't have to use the extra cooling fans, that I already added and save my Alternator some?

Usually cooling can come down to a bad clutch fan or carb/ignition tuning. It can also mean your pistons are sitting below deck and a combination of problems associated with the avoiding the cost of proper maching have occured.

Cliff has given great advice for free, I'd take it Mike.

[NeighborsComplaint]

I could be wrong but as I recall, the RA 041 cam was only available in 4 speed manual cars w 3.90 gears mandatory and 4.30’s optional. In the RA 3’s, stick cars got the 744 cam but auto trans cars got the tamer 068 cam.

The 041 is fairly high strung in a 400 and would only be slight less so in a 428. Big hole in the low end torque offset by high rpm top end charge. In a 455 it’s more drivable. Rhodes lifters improve the low end torque by shortening the cam duration but a 2,000 rpm stall speed Convertor intended for a big heavy RV’ is not optimal. I have a Hughes GM25 convertor with a “RA4-ish spec cam (Crane HIT 284281 in a 455 w 3.55 gears. The convertor is a good match to the cam. Yours would benefit from a similar convertor stall speed.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Usually cooling can come down to a bad clutch fan or carb/ignition tuning. It can also mean your pistons are sitting below deck and a combination of problems associated with the avoiding the cost of proper machining have occurred.

Cliff has given great advice for free; I'd take it Mike.

All of you have good advice and I am soaking it all in as I always do. With the Heads off presently we can see that the pistons are at the top as far as I can tell.

My Clutch Fan has been upgraded to a HD truck type unit and coupled with the upgraded Thermostat with the holes in it for bypass reasons significantly brought the temp. down on installation. The water pump mod. has the water jumping across the top of the radiator. I use the factory Shroud and Clutch fan, plus a 4-core copper Radiator.

We rebuilt the Carbs. after sitting for 2-years as well.

You said: It can also mean your pistons are sitting below deck and a combination of problems associated with avoiding the cost of proper machining have occurred.

Mikes reply: Now that I found that #2 cyl. is the only piston orientated correctly makes me wonder why, got any reason for that? I don't!

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by NeighborsComplaint

I could be wrong but as I recall, the RA 041 cam was only available in 4 speed manual cars w 3.90 gears mandatory and 4.30’s optional. In the RA 3’s, stick cars got the 744 cam but auto trans cars got the tamer 068 cam.

The 041 is fairly high strung in a 400 and would only be slightly less so in a 428. Big hole in the low-end torque offset by high rpm top end charge. In a 455 it’s more drivable. Rhodes lifters improve the low-end torque by shortening the cam duration but a 2,000-rpm stall speed Convertor intended for a big heavy RV’ is not optimal. I have a Hughes GM25 converter with a “RA4-ish spec cam (Crane HIT 284281 in a 455 w 3.55 gears. The converter is a good match to the cam. Yours would benefit from a similar converter stall speed.

I must ask " How does the Gear vendors, that is installed in my Vehicle, offset things, help/hurt etc"...?

I also want to say that the Vehicle came with the # 866 Cam, I think that is the # and it is the 1956 Tri-power one that I loved. Going to this 041 Cam is new, for when I put it in this Vehicle, shortly after I destroyed the Trans. I have yet to get used to this 041 Cam yet. With the passing gear and downshift system now working, the passing systems working again, seems to make this new Cam more enjoyable. It is not bad; I will let you know after I put the motor together and test and tune for a while.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

When we had the Oil pan off recently to inspect the bottom end of this 428 ci Block we measured the clearance's, this is what we came up within photos, plus there was no metal to be found in the Oil pan or Oil filter at least. Since then we put the pan back on to keep it clean and lowered the motor back onto the mounts.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

For those who are not familiar with my 1979 Pontiac TA, here is a brief description: The Engine in this Vehicle is a 428 ci HO Tri-power in it. The TH 400 Trans. is like new and just remanufactured better than from the factory. B+M shifter and shift kit. Gear Vendors over/under drive. Herb Adams suspension all around each corner with full roll bars in the cab, Engine compartment and Trunk. Motor is rebuilt and continues to be at this time improved. All the options you can put on this vehicle are present. I have the cruise control, but have yet to install it completely. Tilt steering, 4-Wheel disc, rear window defroster, electric windows, Trunk release, power steering. Electric door locks and Louvers over the rear window made of Aluminum. Extra insulation under the carpet, side panels, and all door panels and inner panels. I created custom inner insulated panels for the T-tops to keep the sun out and then upholstered them with the same vinyl ceiling head liner Black Landu material. The inside is Black Vinyl as well. For all the details follow me on the PY forum under Tradermike2012.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

I could not find an Air cleaner, with the extra filter at the top of the Air filter, in the aftermarket, so I decided to modify my own, here is the drilled version. I perimeter glued two layers of metal screen diagonally across under the inner lid, to keep the debris out, as well. Other than re-jetting the Tri-power Carbs., in the past, for the upgraded Cam and because I raised the Carbs. about an inch, with a spacer under each and upgraded the Power Piston and Valve in the center Carb. Now, when I drive the car, it is leaner and I don't have to smell the rich fumes or look at black on the inside of the Exhaust pipes. Once, I backed up into a Disabled parking spot on Deerfield Beach Fl., at a restaurant, where people were eating and I had my fat tires on that day, half the people complained and the half were stoked by the fat tires, the stoked ones are car guys, the other half better not go to the Drags. I think I may get better Volumetric efficiency (VE) and with the remanufactured Heads, coming soon, I expect to pass the antipollution standards for 1967, if they had such standards?

One day when this Vehicle gets the new Black paint and Decals, I will buy new rubber for these fat tires. When I bought this second hand project, the former owner had purchased these fat rims and installed the fat tires on them, by the time it sat in his warehouse, over many years, the soft race rubber went dry rot, what a shame, at least I have the custom one-off rims he sold me on.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

I must ask " How does the Gear vendors, that is installed in my Vehicle, offset things, help/hurt etc"...?

I also want to say that the Vehicle came with the # 866 Cam, I think,I do know that the 1956 Tri-power Cam is the that I loved. Upgrading to this 041 Cam is new, for when I put it in this Vehicle, shortly after, I destroyed the Trans. I have yet to get used to this 041 Cam yet. With the passing gear and downshift system now working and the Detent Solenoid working repaired, it seems to make this new Cam more enjoyable. It is not bad; I will let you know after I put the motor together and test and tune for a while.

That above Cam may be #588, hard to remember without looking it up. That Cam I had was somewhere between the 066 and 067 I believe, the 068 is close as well.

The picture on the desk, in the paint shop office, is my prototype version, with my father's race number included.

The trailer is red and soon to be Black.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Here are some exterior construction photos that I would like to share:

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Group, I have been shopping all night and I might have found the deal I am looking for see: eBay # 186004818628

If I buy this short block and it was built good, when the Heads are done, I just install them on this 400 short Block. The other body parts I just sell off. My question to all of you is: "would you trust this vendor who seems to know little to nothing about what he is selling and is this fair value, was it built correctly? It sure looks good to me, with my limited knowledge. I could just pull my used, wrongly built Engine and build it in my spare time. I would install my Heads, Intake and carbs. on this Block, all the accessories should hook up, yes? Should I bid or offer less for this deal, your assistance is welcome, I am not sure of prices and buying parts that I have to sell off. Is there anything that I am overlooking? Seems that all that bottom end work is done for me. I like the Doug Headers; I wonder if they fit in this Vehicle? Is the Performance Quotient Flywheel for my Automatic? Hydraulic
Roller Lifters in the box could/should mean there is a Roller Cam inside the Engine. Looking at zoomed in view of the Cam, it appears to be Roller. IMI- 108 starter looks good, plus a Tomahawk Vally Pan I could use.

[400 Lemans]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/18600481862...Bk9SR_rtjfG9Yg Looks like a nice shortblock. Good price on all of that stuff. Trip to Ca. to get it though.