[chiphead]

Lots to talk about. The issue with the cast 18" wheels is that they all have 4.5" backspace. That isn't going to be deep enough to fit a lot of tire under a '67. I assume most of them don't have the spoke clearance for the C5 brakes. From the research I've done, you need a 18x8" wheel with 5" of BS in the front for 245 tires, and a 18x9" wheel with 6-6.5" of BS in the rear to fit 255-275 tires. The only wheels I can find that fit that bill are $750 from Billet Specialists. There may be others, I haven't found them yet.

I spoke with another guy at GW when I ordered the uppers. He road races a '65 GTO. He said I'll be so surprised by the arms, springs and sway bar, I'll likely not need the AFX spindle unless I road race. I didn't ask about the tall ball joints, I assume I'll just add them myself. He did recommend a S20 spring, which is 500 lb/inch. He said it'd be correct, even with the del a lum bushings. I pressed him on it and he said its the right spring, the first guy recommended a BBC chevelle spring. The road race guy recommended the DA shocks on the street.

Will I get the same life and features out of offshore lower arms? Don't want to put all this effort into it and then cheap out.

I looked at the non-adjustable varishock, and it's more than the Viking DAs. I'm looking for that perfect balance of aggressive cruiser without the harshness. Why would I buy a non adjustable shock that's the same price as a DA? I'm out of my depth here, so edumacake me... What's the best non-adjustable shock for a street corner carver?

I did drive the new Borg box around a bit. Very tight, very responsive. I like it, except that it highlights how bad the suspension is. No strange noises or complaining with a stock rock-auto replacement pump. Am I good on pump output?

[HWYSTR455]

Where did you get the specs on the US MAG wheels? Backspacing on the 8 wide are 4.54, so outward from the centerline is 3.46".

On the 9", or as they 'call ' it, 9.5, is 5.29, making it 3.71 outward from the centerline.


When it comes to width measurement, some use the measurement from inside the lip to inside the lip (8"), and some use from outside to outside (8.5").

So it's not a problem, should easily be able to use them. 'Defacto' is no more than 4" from the face of the drum/rotor outward.


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[HWYSTR455]

On the knock-off lower control arms, most don't add/subtract anything over factory, and tubular is way stronger. Deflection is your enemy.

As mentioned before, just be sure to change the ball joints.

The only other difference would be the del-alum bushings, and those you can buy separately and change out if you choose.

On the 442, I just ran the poly bushings that came in the arms, no 'problem'.

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[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by chiphead

Lots to talk about. The issue with the cast 18" wheels is that they all have 4.5" backspace. That isn't going to be deep enough to fit a lot of tire under a '67. I assume most of them don't have the spoke clearance for the C5 brakes. From the research I've done, you need a 18x8" wheel with 5" of BS in the front for 245 tires, and a 18x9" wheel with 6-6.5" of BS in the rear to fit 255-275 tires. The only wheels I can find that fit that bill are $750 from Billet Specialists. There may be others, I haven't found them yet.

I spoke with another guy at GW when I ordered the uppers. He road races a '65 GTO. He said I'll be so surprised by the arms, springs and sway bar, I'll likely not need the AFX spindle unless I road race. I didn't ask about the tall ball joints, I assume I'll just add them myself. He did recommend a S20 spring, which is 500 lb/inch. He said it'd be correct, even with the del a lum bushings. I pressed him on it and he said its the right spring, the first guy recommended a BBC chevelle spring. The road race guy recommended the DA shocks on the street.

Will I get the same life and features out of offshore lower arms? Don't want to put all this effort into it and then cheap out.

I looked at the non-adjustable varishock, and it's more than the Viking DAs. I'm looking for that perfect balance of aggressive cruiser without the harshness. Why would I buy a non adjustable shock that's the same price as a DA? I'm out of my depth here, so edumacake me... What's the best non-adjustable shock for a street corner carver?

I did drive the new Borg box around a bit. Very tight, very responsive. I like it, except that it highlights how bad the suspension is. No strange noises or complaining with a stock rock-auto replacement pump. Am I good on pump output?

Remember that with backspace, you're taking in to account the outer edge of the bead seat. The True width of an 8" wheel is closer to 9" total when measuring outside to outside of the bead seat.

It's really important to actually measure the wheel wells front and rear, then measure both your front and backspacing available. You can then use a calculator to get your offset. More than likely you're offset on an 8" wheel to get it to fit properly is going to be around 5-10mm. Mine came out at 7mm on the fronts for my current wheels.

There are some cast options that are a bit cheaper. You can get into the torq thrust custom line for around 450 per wheel in any color and offset you need. The Rocket Racing Attack also comes in offsets that are designed to get the wheels inside the wheel wells on these cars.

As far as shocks, the Verishocks aren't the cheapest out there, but their valving and construction makes them a top tier shock. Here's the datasheet.

http://www.cachassisworks.com/Attach...324.1702394051

Viking does make a good shock as well and they are known for good ride quality.

What specific shocks did Global West recommend with the pieces you purchases? That's probably the shock I'd go with, whatever it ends up being.

[HWYSTR455]

I know the 'correct' way to measure a wheel width is inside lip to inside lip, but I have actually seen where that is not the case. There really is no industry 'standard', especially once you go offshore.

I have personally measured wheels that were 8.5 and 9.5 and it turned out it was actually outside to outside measurement. So it's best to measure when you get them, before you mount tires on them, regardless of how they are listed.

I think a half inch per side for the wheel bead wall is a little big, maybe some are like that, but I've seen them closer to a quarter inch per side.

Regardless, what really is going to matter is the TIRE section width, since most tires bulge beyong the lip. And, some tires have a 'wheel saver' feature too, further adding to the confusion.

Anyway, on the US MAG wheels I posted, neither are more than 4" from the mounting surface (offset), and that is the key.


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[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I know the 'correct' way to measure a wheel width is inside lip to inside lip, but I have actually seen where that is not the case. There really is no industry 'standard', especially once you go offshore.

I have personally measured wheels that were 8.5 and 9.5 and it turned out it was actually outside to outside measurement. So it's best to measure when you get them, before you mount tires on them, regardless of how they are listed.

I think a half inch per side for the wheel bead wall is a little big, maybe some are like that, but I've seen them closer to a quarter inch per side.

Regardless, what really is going to matter is the TIRE section width, since most tires bulge beyong the lip. And, some tires have a 'wheel saver' feature too, further adding to the confusion.

Anyway, on the US MAG wheels I posted, neither are more than 4" from the mounting surface (offset), and that is the key.


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All correct, everyone is a bit different depending on how the wheel is constructed.

I just ordered a set of BC Forged wheels. Hoping to have those late next month. The barrel they use is 1/4" outside bead seat. So a 9.5" wheel measures 10" outside rim to outside rim.

My car is very low and the tires sit well into the fender wells. I've found that stretching the tire on a wheel on the higher end of the tire's recommendation works a bit better for clearance sake. I run a 275 on a 9.5" rear and a 245 on an 8.5" front.

[HWYSTR455]

When I had 17s on the lemans, I had an 11" wide on the rear, and a 9" on the front. 275s would rub on the sway bar if I was near full lock, so after that set was done I went back to 255s.

I ran 305s on the back at one time, but the 'bulge' would rub the lower control arm around turns. At speed, that made me very nervous, and dropped back to 295s.

It got hard to find matching tires trying to run a 295 in back, and since the rears didn't last long, I gave up and dropped back to 275s.

It was pretty slammed. I had to remove the inner wheel well bolts along the top, and in the rear I had to roll the lip some and trim the wheel opening molding.

Hard to tell in this pic, but those are 295s on the back, 275s on the front. If you look next to it, there's a 2004 or so GTO, it has a drop kit on it, and the LeMans is still lower.

That pic was from a Sunday I was taking a ride in the Cumberland mountains, and came across the Burdette Pontiac annual car show. Parking lot was a good 1/2 mile walk, so I entered the show and parked on the field. I nabbed 1st in the driver class.
*
Headers were 'sacrificial' when it was setup that way. My T/A is even lower.


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[HWYSTR455]

At the time, Centerline wheels were very affordable, less than $200ea. You could order any back half and pick a backspacing you wanted.

Only problem with them was that you hit a good pot hole, and they dented. I would use a piece of 2x4 and just hammer on them, would usually get 90% of the dent out.

Got tired of polishing them too, so went to cast wheels.


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[JLMounce]

Yeah, I wanted to push the widths on these new wheels a bit. My intent was to run a 255/285 combo, or even a 275/295, but I have small amounts of rub as it is now in certain situations. Once I realized that the 245/275 combo is a sweet spot for tire pricing, I stayed with the widths I'm already running. The only change I made was going to an 8.5" wheel in the front instead of the 8" which will allow me to stretch the rubber onto the wheel a bit, and achieve the same type of sidewall front and rear.

There are a +7 front and +7.5 rear. With my recent brake change I'm going to a +13 on an 8.5" front and a +2 on a 9.5" rear. The front ends up being almost exactly the same front space, but the rears needed to come towards the fender a bit more.

[HWYSTR455]

That thing is sweet! Think it's the first time I've seen it!

Yeah, 1st gens are a little less forgiving on sizing. Where did it make contact, tie rod?

I get it, trying to get the most under there front & back on any car, is a dance.

I like the wheels I have on my 2nd gen now (ROH), but they need to go inboard more. I need like a half inch inward on the front, and like 3/4 - 1 inch inward in the rear to get what I want, but that means 'custom', and it's gonna be a while before I have the coin to do that.

At one point, on the LeMans, a set of rear tires lasted about a summer. It's setup for handling, so....


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[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

That thing is sweet! Think it's the first time I've seen it!

Yeah, 1st gens are a little less forgiving on sizing. Where did it make contact, tie rod?

I get it, trying to get the most under there front & back on any car, is a dance.

I like the wheels I have on my 2nd gen now (ROH), but they need to go inboard more. I need like a half inch inward on the front, and like 3/4 - 1 inch inward in the rear to get what I want, but that means 'custom', and it's gonna be a while before I have the coin to do that.

At one point, on the LeMans, a set of rear tires lasted about a summer. It's setup for handling, so....


.

I actually don't contact the tie rod in the front. The fronts contact the upper inner wheel well while turning and entering a raised drive. Otherwise they are rub free. My rears are inset a bit further than needed. The driver side wheel scrubs the inner wheel well lightly while traversing deep undulations, never while driving on normal roads.

I actually had to replace tires for age on the most recent set. I drive a good bit, but I'm not hard on the tires. Even this new set of Falken Azenis 615K's are getting decent life from the tire.

The Torq Thurs Custom and the Rocket Racing attack are about the only wheels I know of that offer a "custom offet" within a specific range that aren't a full custom wheel. They are both about 450-550 per wheel depending on size. The BC Forged I'm having built are spendy. I think they're going to look great, but they better for what the cost is coming out to.

[chiphead]

Winner Chicken Dinner?

https://www.weldwheels.com/weld-stre...=S10489563525#

[JLMounce]

I like the Venturas. They are a good looking and well constructed wheel for their price point. Many of the wheels are running on or near 0 offset which may pose a problem.

They are made with some higher offset stuff that you can get into the wheel wells properly with the use of spacers.

[chiphead]

So, all GW suspension parts ordered except for shocks. Onward to shocks!

So, Hotchkis Fox 1.5 monotube or Viking Warrior double adjustable twin-tube? Those seem to be the main contenders for my application, based on price point and performance. The gas monotubes are marketed as high end non adjustable street shocks, and the DAs are for high end adjustable. The online talking heads recommend monotube but the auto-x guys like the DAs. What am I to think?

If you're just joining us, the application is 67 LeMans, capable street car for comfortable cruising and spirited back highway carving.

[JLMounce]

If the spring rates of your GW springs are close to, or match the Hotchkis equivalent spring, I would lean in that direction. The Hotchkis shock is specifically valved for the updated spring rate.

I can’t really comment on Viking shocks, I’ve never run them.

[chiphead]

Good point. I checked and the Hotchkiss springs for SBC or Pontiac are 518 inch lbs and the GW A body springs are 500. So the rates are dead on. I think I'm gonna give the fox shocks a try.

[chiphead]

I've been reviewing the whole front end job and I think this is gonna be a sticking point. How do I get the upper control arm bolts out with the engine in place? Check out how close the bolts are to the headers, one pic for each side.

How would you guys get this loose?

[JLMounce]

Yeah, that's going to suck. You're going to need to move the engine out of the way or unbolt and move the headers. Or you could possibly take a little bit off of the threads with a cutoff wheel. The problem with that solution is you lose real-estate on the bolt for your alignment shims.

[chiphead]

Are replacement upper bolts available? I could take the control arms loose, get behind them and cut the bolt with a cutoff wheel, sawzall, plasma cutter, thermonuclear warhead, whatever it took to not have to pull the headers. then I'd have enough room to pound out the stubs and drive new bolts in. If I've got to pull the headers I'm doing an engine swap. This is how it snowballs.

How tight are those in the frame? Could I weld a dent puller weld pin to the bolt heads, and pull them out with a slide hammer in the wheel well?

[JLMounce]

Yes they should be. Most times they are knurled, but they don't necessarily have to be.

I'm surprised yours are actually that close. Even on the passenger side of my bird, there's a solid inch to inch and a half of clearance on the worst bolt. The driver's side, there's a country mile of room.