[Dave R]

I have two 70 TA projects in progress. Dealing with wrong parts and missing parts.

[71GP76TA]

My car was an unknown car until late last year. It sat in a garage untouched since the early-mid 90's. I believe I am the 3rd owner. I bought it word of mouth. I'm sure other unknown cars exist. I'd say there is probably a 40-50% survival rate. These were popular well liked cars.... even though most were thrashed on.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

If you don’t already have the info in your database, my brother has a 72 T/A Cameo White, 4 speed, A/C, custom/deluxe blue interior with front and rear consoles. Rear defogger as well. April 72 build shipped to Mc Namara Pontiac, Orlando FL. I can send the phs, just let me know.

Very nice. It is surprising on how many early Trans Am four-speed cars have air-conditioning and many are in very good condition

[keith k]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Began putting together a "list" of known still existing '72 TransAms nearly 30 years ago. Around that time, knew of 8 '72 TransAms that were somewhat close in my region, along w one that an old friend in MD owns. Remember speaking w Gary (MuscleCollector) around that time, & he knew of 2 of the ones on my "list". Since that time the Internet, BB's, eBay, KIJI, BAT, have come on the scene. Couple that with an absolute DELUGE of checkerboard floor carlot hustlers & all forms of auctions. The result, MUCH MORE EXPOSURE. Unlike the old days of only running across a specific early T/A in Hemmings, Smoke, Auto Trader, Deals on Wheels, local Traders, or encountering a '72 T/A owner through networking, maybe p @ a big show, like T/A Nats, or at a big Swapper.

Believe I have info on near (or little more) than 200 '72 TransAms. Real cars, NOT clones. Need to organize & input a few dozen more '72 sheets which I've wrote down info on in the last few years to get a total. For the '72 model year, have T/A's & Formulas split up into "Early" builds, before Christmas of '71. Then "late" builds, cars that were built with seatbelt warning & 3 pt Irvin seatbelts. In some cases, I don't have the VIN noted, only know or am aquainted w the long time owner. Am sure there are more '72's out there.

Currently, know of over a dozen '70 TransAms in the base project phase missing parts, to '70's that are further intact or further along in the restoration phase. With there being so many more 70's built, have always had leads on 70 RA3 T/A projects.

I have done the same, since the late '90s, with '70 T/As. I have info on a little over 400 of them ... so about 12%. Some of these cars were rough, and may have been parted out, and of course some may have been lost to fires, floods, wrecks, etc. But as others on this thread have noted, there are lots of "unknown" cars out there still.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli

Very nice. It is surprising on how many early Trans Am four-speed cars have air-conditioning and many are in very good condition

Rough idea on how many 4 speed A/C cars?

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli

Very nice. It is surprising on how many early Trans Am four-speed cars have air-conditioning and many are in very good condition

A/C = kiss of death on the performance side. Usually low numerical geared rears if I am not mistaken and a wide ratio M20 on most not all.

['ol Pinion head]

At least with '71 & 72 HO Birds when built w M22's (as well as '73 455 w M21's), they all* came w a 3.42 gear, didnt matter if non air or factory AC. I don't like the extra weight either, but am not installing a Sandeen compressor & the reqired goofy brackets on a serious restoration. *Prob should note a few very early built 71 M22 HO Birds w/o AC have been recovered with late 70 axle plant assembled COZ (3.73) 12 bolts. Believe that's more of an oddity than anything.

Am also not a fan of a M22 in front of 3.31's, esp with taller tires. One of my 71's wasvfactory equip with HO M22 & 3.31's . For it & my other '71 HO 233 car, Ive built up an 8.5 A-body rear with 3.73's to swap in & out for PureStock drag action.

[71GP76TA]

Originally Posted by skunkwerks

A/C = kiss of death on the performance side. Usually low numerical geared rears if I am not mistaken and a wide ratio M20 on most not all.

My '72 is M22 3.42 A/C. Wish it didn't have A/C but it does...

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

My '72 is M22 3.42 A/C. Wish it didn't have A/C but it does...

I have only one car with A/C. The rest are sticks. These cars are hard to find anyway. I would not pass it up just because it has A/C. Some want comfort while cruising. Least you got the stick version. Auto and A/C just not as mechanical.
3.42 gears mated with a M22 is far from what you could get in 1970.
My opinion is the non-A/C cars for 71-72 should have come with 3.55 or 3.73 option. 3.73 is a better gear for the M22 set-up. especially with a tall tire.
But GM thought otherwise.
My current 71 resto has 3.55s installed. little better than stock.

[poncho-mike]

Your brother may have bought one of my old cars.

If my memory is correct, it had the WD motor (points, not HEI). It was originally white with deluxe blue interior, and I think it had rear console and I know it had rear window defog. I bought it from a guy in the Greensboro NC area around 1985. Somewhere in its previous life it had been painted Lucy Blue. The top end was off of the motor because the heads were removed to fix a burnt valve. After buying it, I built the engine with some added mods like SD rods and drove it about 20K miles. It was really stout, but I had used the H-O Specialties rear seal and it started leaking after about 5K miles. I built it with a hotter cam, electric pusher pump, SD rods, and had some head work done on the heads by a friend who worked for a Nascar team. I pulled the engine to fix the rear main leak, but never put the engine back together. I found a SD455 T/A I wanted, and another friend wanted to buy the car without the modified parts. I gave him a stock set of heads and a different intake and the original block and tranny. The buyer let it sit for a few years but never did anything with it. He lost interest and asked me to help him sell it. It went to GA, where it was restored back to white. At some point the guy in GA called me to let me know he was selling it. He kept in touch, said it went to California. I can probably dig up the VIN. If your brother's car has a WD engine, it is very possible it is my old car.

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

If you don’t already have the info in your database, my brother has a 72 T/A Cameo White, 4 speed, A/C, custom/deluxe blue interior with front and rear consoles. Rear defogger as well. April 72 build shipped to Mc Namara Pontiac, Orlando FL. I can send the phs, just let me know.

[TimsTA]

Maybe a few more if this wouldn’t have happened……….

[3tas4me]

I think that 20% survival on these cars is a bit low. I believe there are still a fair number of projects still hidden away. My ‘70 sat on a farm for decades until the PO bought it on an estate auction. There are four of us (all on this board) that own ‘71’s and we all live within 30 miles of each other. I know of at least one other ‘71 around here as well. I think that Trans and survival rate is 30-40%. People recognized these as special and many were left sitting in barns and garages long after they were done being used. Years ago I bought a blue ‘71 from Indiana that had been wrecked in the late ‘70s. The car was a total loss and mostly parted out but never scrapped. It still had a title and may be out there on the road today.

[trishieldchief]

Easily north of 50% survival rates on early TA's.

They were low production special cars from 69-74, everyone loved them and saved them because they were special.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by trishieldchief

Easily north of 50% survival rates on early TA's.

They were low production special cars from 69-74, everyone loved them and saved them because they were special.

Totally agree . I have documented well over 50% of 70 TAs with RAIV that survived .

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by Tellyshavilli

Totally agree . I have documented well over 50% of 70 TAs with RAIV that survived .

Would you think the survival rate of the RAIV T/A would be greater than RAIII?

[HO Kenny]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

At least with '71 & 72 HO Birds when built w M22's (as well as '73 455 w M21's), they all* came w a 3.42 gear, didnt matter if non air or factory AC. I don't like the extra weight either, but am not installing a Sandeen compressor & the reqired goofy brackets on a serious restoration. *Prob should note a few very early built 71 M22 HO Birds w/o AC have been recovered with late 70 axle plant assembled COZ (3.73) 12 bolts. Believe that's more of an oddity than anything.

Am also not a fan of a M22 in front of 3.31's, esp with taller tires. One of my 71's wasvfactory equip with HO M22 & 3.31's . For it & my other '71 HO 233 car, Ive built up an 8.5 A-body rear with 3.73's to swap in & out for PureStock drag action.

I used to own a 71 formula 455ho 4 speed with the factory 3:73 10 bolt. It’s currently being restored.

I Also owed a 71 TA 4 speed with 3:73 10 bolt posi.
I never checked to see if it was factory though.
It’s currently being stored. It’s not on anyones list.

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by necdb3

Would you think the survival rate of the RAIV T/A would be greater than RAIII?

Not really. I think about the same