[Tim Corcoran]

I have to ask, did you use the same machinist each time you rebuilt the engine? Gapless rings are a little finicky I know I have used them in the past. They need a special finish to work correctly. For a street car there is no advantage to use them. They actually work best with a vacuum pump. I agree the rubber plugs for the breathers should be completely open. Was a torque plate used when your engine was honed? By the way a header evac system only works correctly with open headers. If you decide to re-ring the engine I would get a different machinist and ditch the gapless rings. Have you tried backing the timing off 2 or 3 degrees and see if it makes a difference?

[HWYSTR455]

Just to say, gapless rings are junk IMO. I've seen many have issues with them. Blowby being one of them. They can 'stick' together and not compress right and wear fast. I think they are more of a 'gimmick' than functional. Classic style rings don't have much blowby if installed correctly, so the thought that gapless have less blowby is a questionable 'benefit'.

I never had luck with those VC grommets either, and for me it seemed it was always an issue with the PCV valves or source of vacuum, and not the breather. So that grommet has little or no, effect, or even makes it worse.

On the dip stick, one thing that can also push the stick out is if the stick is making contact with the pan or is loaded by the tube that passes thru the tray. The tube that passes thru the tray needs to be right too, some with aftermarket caps may have bent the lower tube to make it fit. If you have AC with the extension tube it can be even more contorted.

You have to initially insert the stick in a way that is of least resistance too, so the flat sides are as flat as can be as it makes turns thru the tube(s). Sometimes the finger loop on the end may not face a particular way, and some try to make it face a way they want, and not 'relaxed' thru the tube(s).

Just a little brain-dump on my thoughts, some may find it useful.

.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by Tim Corcoran

I have to ask, did you use the same machinist each time you rebuilt the engine? Gapless rings are a little finicky I know I have used them in the past. They need a special finish to work correctly. For a street car there is no advantage to use them. They actually work best with a vacuum pump. I agree the rubber plugs for the breathers should be completely open. Was a torque plate used when your engine was honed? By the way a header evac system only works correctly with open headers. If you decide to re-ring the engine I would get a different machinist and ditch the gapless rings. Have you tried backing the timing off 2 or 3 degrees and see if it makes a difference?

Thanks Tim & HWYSTR455...........my first two rebuilds were different machinists, will have to check paper work on last rebuild, not sure if gapless were used, I should have clarified the motor wasnt redone last year, he just took it apart and put in new rings, i know those were gapless.

The first two rebuilds were bored and honed with torque plates..........might try backing the timing off a little...........cant hurt.

Seeing i only have 2 thousand miles since this re-ring job, im gonna wait untill things get alot worse before taking that apart again.............to tell the truth, im not sure i want to try to fix this 455 again..............just find it hard to believe every time i get work done to the motor, its always the same issue.

Im gonna try to find my paperwork on stuff and see what i got going here.

Rich

[skunkwerks]

have seen this happen a few times in my life. Two main issues that were found were
1. The rubber plugs in the valve cover breathers were not cut open.

2. one piston ring was missing or broken.

Number 2 is most likely as it is blowing the dip stick up.
Please do a leak down check on all cylinders. If all are good then the problem is up top.

[Tim Corcoran]

It's too bad your engine was re-ringed with the gapless rings. If it was honed and a plasma moly top ring and a cast 2nd ring was installed I doubt you would be having this problem. The rear main seal may be somewhat related but most likely was not installed correctly also.

[mgarblik]

Lots of good ideas floating around in this thread now. To boil it down to a plan of action, this would be my approach. You state the engine runs good and the oil leaks are the only problem you want to try to correct or make very minimal. 1. We seem pretty certain the plugs/grommets in the valve covers were not letting the engine breath. So correct that first. 2. Since the engine was not breathing, this may have put excessive vacuum on the PCV hose. Especially if fuel hose is being used, the hose may be sucking closed when the engine is running or at high vacuum. Check that hose. Replace it if there is any possibility of it sucking closed. I like to use power steering return hose, or power brake booster hose. Those hoses are stiffer and less likely to suck closed. Once all that is buttoned up, I would get everything as clean as possible and take the car out and run it good and hard. Bring it back and evaluate the oil leaks. If still leaking, a smoke machine would be my next move to really pinpoint the source of the leak. I have had a tiny, tiny leak at the rear of a valve cover that I would have sworn was a rear main or oil pan leak. The smoke machine can be a humbling experience.

[HWYSTR455]

Yeah, if the vacuum source hose is long, and you used fuel line or the likes, It very well could be sucking shut, especially if it's at higher RPM/vacuum. Good thought.

You could even use hard line, and just do connections in short sections of whatever hose. It's cleaner, and less space, not effected by heat.

I use emissions line for smaller vacuum feeds, like vacuum advance, works great.

.

[gtorich]

Thanks again guys..............ok, went thru my paperwork..............on the 2nd rebuild they used Total Seal CR069065 rings..............on the re-ring last year they used Hastings 2M552965 rings...........not sure what the deal is on these when i looked up on summit says not gapless.................but i do remember the guy saying he uses gapless rights, doesnt matter thats what in the car right now.

Will try a leakdown again, i have a cheapy set, half the time i cant even get it in the plug hole right.............might have to take it in to a pro shop for that.

Got rid of the rubber grommets i had in there...............curious any better filters i can get besides the cheapys i have now.

Took the car out awhile ago, slapped that puppy up to 5500 or so thru 2 gears, so far about 10 minutes after i got home, 2 small drops, will check in the morning again.......i should have cleaned out the inspection cover before doing this................yeah, too lazy to crawl under the car.

Per Mike, im gonna get a smoke machine....................just a quick question, are you able to tell if the smoke comes out by the oil pan bend in the back compared to a rear main seal leak..............looks like there pretty close.

Will look into that wagner pcv valve............little spendy but im wasting way more money trying every pcv in exsistence.................the bulters pcv valve wasnt excately cheap either...........lol

Any other ways to test if your pcv system isnt up to par.............im pretty sure my hose isnt the issue, i can run a q-tip in the hose, maybe a hair of oil in it, but thats it.

I do appreciate all the help i get from you guys.............i will get this oil leaking fixed one way or the other.

Rich

[mgarblik]

With everything working right, the breathers are really air intakes into the engine and the PCV system is the output. So cheap breathers can leak a little oil out on the valve covers or a mist under full throttle when the PCV can't handle 100% of the blowby. Better breathers have more mesh in them to strain oil vapor. If the breathers are not leaking oil, I wouldn't worry about them. Sounds like the problem may go away with some more driving.

[HWYSTR455]

Moroso breathers are pretty good, and don't get much mist. They are kind of larger, have a divider in them, as well as some 'mesh' (which looks like a cut up 3M pad stuff).

The Billet Specialties ones I run on the one car are great, little to no mist out of those, but do have a repop valley pan (oe type baffle).

Those sheet metal valley pans are almost impossible to prevent them from sucking oil if you run the PCV in them, not even sure why they put the boss on those, they suck, and yes, pun intended!


.

[78w72]

Hope you can figure this out along with the rms or pan gasket leak.

Regarding the valve cover grommets, I use the same ones you have on my 78 400 engine, the slot in them is not razor thin, its the full width of the grommet & is almost 1/8" wide, maybe a little less, but you can just about breathe freely through them so they probably aren't causing the leak issue or excessive crankcase pressure. By all means try open grommets to see if they help, but Ive never had an issue with them causing a rear main or other oil leaks. https://www.moroso.com/breather-grom...-package68775/

They do make another type of baffled grommet that has a much bigger opening with a piece of foam in it to stop oil mist, if you also have mist out the breathers these might help a little & provide better breathing than the ones with a slot. On this same page you can also see the k&n type breathers that are fully open with the pleated material. I also use the cheaper chrome breathers that work fine, if they get loaded with oil mist I just rotate them 180°... never had an oil drops from them though. https://www.ebay.com/itm/404113941017

[gtorich]

Thanks for that info Scott..............will email you this week.

Im gonna pick up some p/s return hose today, although thats what i think i have on there now............my hose is pretty stiff, wow, that dont sound right.

Noticed today when i pulled off the bulter pcv valve the tip had some oil on it, not alot.........but the hose was dry.

Im trying to keep a good attitude about this, but im losing faith slowly......

Rich

[78w72]

Thats good your hose is still stiff.... lol! In my experience reinforced fuel hose is pretty strong & wont collapse under the weak vac of pcv... ive even used it for many years on auto trans for the solenoid line when I was younger & didnt know or care about using hard line for that location, its a good idea to confirm the hose isnt collapsing but for such a short run under low vac, thats probably not an issue.

[gtorich]

An update for anyone watching.............2 days ago Pic # 6..........was at 5 grand or more for quite a few times.............dipstick did move up about a 1/4 inch.

Pic # 3-4 were yesterdays test..........up to 4 grand or so, d/s didnt move.

Last pics were from today, watch the oil and sucked beer, two hours later..............looking good....lol

Only changes i made since the first oil drips that were pretty bad was...............a new pcv hose which looked like what i had, and a new pcv valve AC delco CV881C for a chevy.

Hopefully this pics come in some kind of order.

Rich

[gtorich]

Pics of my d/s........................this has been going on for awhile so far, about 450 miles, cant believe the d/s is near full................i only use 6 qts, the one side of the d/s looks like 2 qts overfull, but i use the other side i scribed a mark on............just down a little, not that im leaking a ton of oil, just hard to belive its not moving much on the d/s.

Im gonna keep a good eye on this for awhile...............but as i said before, i have lost all faith in this motor, its been one thing after another on this oil issue.............well at least the d/s looks honey colored after the re-ring, usually before that oil was black in 50-60 miles, easier to read on the d/s.

Seems if i keep the revs under 3000-4000 i only drip some................kind of a waste of a 455 with kre heads and cant run more without issues.

Wanted to say thanks to all the help i got from you guys..................will pm some to thank personally.

PS all info is correct even with the beer drinking...............its what we do up here in wisconsin..........lol

Last pic is the breather im using.............i know it says Tawain , but im sure its the finest one from Tawain.

[gtorich]

The reason those two pics are different................the one that says 45 minutes is about where the inspection plate is..................the one further back is on the trans so its flying back some.

Rich

[67drake]

You’re complaining about that?! lol
Next time I’m out there I’m gonna have to post some pics of my floor!
I’m glad it’s better, I still haven’t checked mine, wife’s uncle is on hospice, and she’s over there 24 hours a day now, so not much if any garage time lately. I hope to get out there a for a minutes this weekend.

[gtorich]

Hey Drake, sorry to hear about your situation.............im not really complaining, just trying to figure out this oil leak deal................had to look up where your at, 140 miles from me...............i might have to drive down and look at your pig pen oil leaked garage.............lo0l

Rich

[gtorich]

Ok, last pic before i drive you guys to drinking..............this was from last nite to most of the day today.

When i started this thread i knew i had a leak, my issue was if i didnt run the car for 4-5 days, why is it still leaking, i understand when driving you have some pressure going on, then when you shut it off, its gonna drip some...............but 4-5 days later seems odd.

Now these drops look small, this just changed in the last couple days since i made some changes you guys recommended..................no big deal if it stays like this. BUT if you noticed in the one pic i sent with the 4 pretty big drops, i had a # 4 written down on my plate so i could count the times i cleaned it, so i cleaned those big drops 4 times all about the same in a few hrs.............then few days with small drops.

Gonna see if i can get a smoke machine to hopefully pinpoint the leak.

Just wanted to say thanks again for the help.

Rich

[67drake]

Checked the rubber my breather is in today, it’s open at the bottom. I was kind of hoping it wasn’t.