[Johnny406]

I was just surfing on the Lunati page (Edelbrock group) and ALL the Pontiac stuff is gone. That's too bad, I always likes the Lunati stuff. Anyone know when/why this happened? They have Chevy, Ford, Chrysler and... ...Buick but not us.

[dataway]

I think in another 10 years the performance modification of Pontiacs will become a pretty rare thing. The generations that have an interest in maintaining "Pontiac Power" are dwindling fast, as is the supply of original blocks to work with. Pontiac has been gone now for 14 years, in another 10 years the crop of young people that grew up with parents that owned Pontiacs, or neighbors that owned TAs, GTOs, Firebirds etc. is going to be gone. With no new Pontiacs they have disappeared from movies and pop culture. It's become more and more difficult to find machine shops with the expertise to work on the old hardware.
Unfortunately it won't be many years until they are relegated to the status of Studebaker, Packard, Edsel etc. The average age of Pontiac enthusiasts is reaching the danger zone.
I think there will remain enough interest to maintain a specialized aftermarket for decades to come, but mainstream support of the brand is going to wane very soon I think.

[Jay S]

It does not appear it has anything to do with market shares, or lack of interest in Pontiac. Take a look at the parts that are on the Lunati site for other GM brands, the only parts on Lunati’s website are parts that are old overstocked parts, there is barely anything on that site now across all brands, what is left on the site has large discounts.

Edelbrock group does not appear to be interested in managing more than 1 cam company. Lunati will probably be a small legacy line offered from comp with all Comp cams parts numbers soon.

[mgarblik]

One thing that is certain based on every single private equity group bulk purchase of performance brands. When IOP, (Industrial Opportunity Partners), is done managing all their holdings, the individual companies ie: Edelbrock, Lunati, Comp and all the others will be raided and gutted and worthless. That's the business model. Run the legacy name into the ground, earn big bonuses for the investors, sell off the scraps at auction. I don't think it's a "Pontiac thing". Although I do agree with Dataway in his general assessment of the Pontiac hobby. I am involved with a group of Studebaker enthusiasts and most performance parts are custom, one off pieces.

[mgarblik]

BTW, spent a little time on the Lunati web site this morning. In the last sentence under "history", they mention they are discontinuing "less popular cam grinds and components". This is corporate speak for we will sell cams and parts for SBC, SBF, BBC, LS, new HEMI. They also mention Comp manufacturers all their parts moving forward. At least they are machined in the USA. Olive Branch, MS. Whatever Lunati parts you currently have in your possession, will be your last.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Forgot DeSoto, which may look like an early PMD V8. ( i can say that because who knows!).

Anyway, been 14 years and I think what the PMD V8 needs is a technology replacement for the cam&lifters. Maybe a few gizmos like quad-coil ignition, Throttleplate FI that looks like a Q-JET, cold-air tube air filter box, and gear-dry-belt driven OHC Heads.

Or just keep doing what we've seen, and drop used parts to 1980's prices.

I want to put a PMD V8 in a 95-97 Towncar, but cannot start due the cost of the hobby.

[PAUL K]

This isn't good. Investment groups and greed f'd up the medical industry. Before you know it the aftermarket performance industry will be just as bad.

[GOAT8U2]

I've got a Voodoo cam and am happy with it, what's available for us 2025 on?

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by dataway

I think in another 10 years the performance modification of Pontiacs will become a pretty rare thing. The generations that have an interest in maintaining "Pontiac Power" are dwindling fast, as is the supply of original blocks to work with. Pontiac has been gone now for 14 years, in another 10 years the crop of young people that grew up with parents that owned Pontiacs, or neighbors that owned TAs, GTOs, Firebirds etc. is going to be gone. With no new Pontiacs they have disappeared from movies and pop culture. It's become more and more difficult to find machine shops with the expertise to work on the old hardware.
Unfortunately it won't be many years until they are relegated to the status of Studebaker, Packard, Edsel etc. The average age of Pontiac enthusiasts is reaching the danger zone.
I think there will remain enough interest to maintain a specialized aftermarket for decades to come, but mainstream support of the brand is going to wane very soon I think.

I fit into the younger group on here, and sometimes it's hard being a Pontiac fan when all you hear is the same old recipe for making power. The same basic iron heads, same off the shelf camshaft that's been around since the stone ages, and let's not forget that the Q-Jet is God's gift to the automotive world.

Don't get me wrong, there's guys in the Pontiac world trying to push the Pontiac designed engines hard, but they're few and far between compared to other brands.

Other brands have enthusiasts constantly pushing innovation, which results in all sorts of cool stuff. I see it in the Chevy, Ford and Mopar world, not to mention the import and Euro worlds.

It's tough showing up to car meets and hanging out with guys my age, and they're all showing off their stuff with great enthusiasm, and all I have to show for is a set of aluminum heads that haven't changed much since their release decades ago, and a camshaft selection that rivals the clearance rack at a goodwill store.

So it's no surprise that Lunati is killing off their Poncho parts.

[mgarblik]

You can always have a custom cam ground by nearly a dozen companies. Large flat tappet cams will be an issue due to no cores/blanks being available moving forward. Small ones can be reground on an old core many times. Roller cams will be less of a problem. Costs will ratchet up quite a bit as cores dry up. Longer wait times and few choices "off the shelf" will be available. That's life with a "legacy" engine.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

You can always have a custom cam ground by nearly a dozen companies. Large flat tappet cams will be an issue due to no cores/blanks being available moving forward. Small ones can be reground on an old core many times. Roller cams will be less of a problem. Costs will ratchet up quite a bit as cores dry up. Longer wait times and few choices "off the shelf" will be available. That's life with a "legacy" engine.

Sure, but there's plenty of other legacy engines running around that are constantly being developed, even long after their respective manufacturers stopped using said engines.

[John Milner]

I am in my mid 30's myself. I do not enjoy or really have any interest in any cars newer than 1980 or so. I really have no interest in fixing up anything that has a computer or fuel injection. I get bored going to car shows or swap meets and seeing newer engines in muscle cars. I understand how difficult/expensive it can be getting new or even used parts for older engines. I just rebuilt a 289 Studebaker engine for my 1950 2r5 Studebaker pickup. I spent more on that engine than I would have by just installing a 350 chevy, LS or something generic in it. I wanted to look under the hood of a Studebaker and see a Studebaker engine.

If Pontiacs engines end up getting like rebuilding a Studebaker engine, I guess I will just save up, and do it. 60's and 70's Pontiacs are my favorite cars and engines. I enjoy building and working on Pontiac engines, adjusting points, rebuilding carburetors, and shifting a 4 speed. I have noticed that some Pontiac engine parts are getting harder to get. I have been stocking up on older flat tappet camshafts, NOS lifters, engine rebuild parts, and core 400/428/455 engines for quite a while now and probably have enough saved to outlast me. I will drive my Pontiac powered Pontiacs, 4 speeds, tripowers, etc until I can't buy gas to fill them up or I am no longer here, whichever comes first.

[Sirrotica]

You can complain all you want about aftermarket speed equipment at this time, but in the 70s when they were still making the engines there was nothing but factory parts available overall.

You could buy an aluminum intake, headers, camshafts and that was about it. Luckily Pontiac factory parts were so well engineered, that the aftermarket parts sometime made less power than the factory parts, I.E. the aftermarket intake manifolds were lighter, but many times not as efficient as the factory ones.

I raced oval track cars in the 70s and 80s and we used way more factory engineered parts than aftermarket. I was successful using that formula.

At this time you can build a Stratostreak V8 without using a single factory part. For a brand that last sold it's last performance engine in 1979, I feel we have come a long way since the 70s. Don't complain too hard about aftermarket support for the Stratostreak engine when you haven't had almost zero support as we had in the 70s.

Larry Wenzler made the first aftermarket heads for the Stratostreak V8 with conventional valve arrangement, and when Edelbrock saw he was selling a fair quantity, plus being bugged by Arnie Beswick for years, they finally made some heads. then others started offering aluminum heads too.

Same with engine blocks, Dick Duclow (Indian Adventures) started making iron HP blocks, Kauffman followed.

The thing you have to keep in mind is that our sector is a tiny percentage of chevy lovers, so we have a much smaller pool of people and corporate entities to work with. It takes time to find people that want to invest in a really risky venture that has a small chance of money return. People have risked their life savings to bring some aftermarket parts to market, hoping they would at least break even.

I believe that some of the aftermarket will definitely go away in the not to distant future as we old diehards pass, but I surely wouldn't be complaining about what's currently available, the offerings now are 10 times better than in the 70s. We can't get new products without someone willing to invest the capital.............

I guess this reminds me of people that complain about the USA, they never leave it though. But some enthusiasts do defect, and put brand X between the frame rails of their cars, I call them quitters.......... The real pioneers of the Pontiac faithful made what wasn't mass produced for their engines, that's basically what hot rodding is about, not opening your checkbook and getting online to buy what you want. That's also how the aftermarket got started, someone makes a successful product that there is a demand for, and they start manufacturing it. If it's not available and you want it, simply get working on it.

[gokitty]

Pontiac parts (GTO,Transam,Firebird,etc)tough to get? Kinda. Buick parts (GS,GS400,GSX) ? Almost unobtanium.

[RocktimusPryme]

Ill be at PRI this week, I was there last year and I gotta say it seems like there is more cool stuff available to hot rodders than ever before. Im sorry that Lunatis Pontiac catalog may be shrinking, and I think there is always reason to be skeptical of corporate takeovers, but I don't think there is any reason to be doom and gloom either.

Even in niche Pontiac world I think that holds true. You can buy a RAV topend from DCI for somewhat reasonable prices if you want. There are now multiple sources for aftermarket heads. Companies like Butler have championed rotating assembly combinations that take advantage of BBC ring sizes to make things more available. We will be alright for a good long while.

I don't buy that we will go the way of Packard and Nash because they weren't part of the muscle car era. Which has a crazy place in pop culture that hasn't diminished. When John Wick stops appearing on screen with a 60s-70s muscle car, then I will be concerned.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by gokitty

Pontiac parts (GTO,Transam,Firebird,etc)tough to get? Kinda. Buick parts (GS,GS400,GSX) ? Almost unobtanium.

Very true, the car I owned before this was a ‘71 Skylark. When I bought it in 2009 there was almost zero aftermarket support, I had to track down lighters, wiper switches & convertible switches via EBay & except for a very few Buick specialists there was hardly any aftermarket support at all.. Owning a Pontiac is a totally different experience, the GTO & Firebirds are probably some of the most famous muscle cars in the world with a huge aftermarket to support them.

I will agree engine components are way more expensive than Chevy stuff but if I see an LS motor in a non Chevy muscle car at a show I keep walking, sooooo boring to see & I do feel that the owner probably took the easy “cheap” way out no matter how much power they make.

[Jay S]

I have noticed Jegs seems to be trying to market the Lunati brand strong yet, and have most of the Pontiac offerings we have had access to in the past. Since sometime early this year the Lunati site seems to be just for parts that have been replaced with new part numbers.. The new part numbers appear to be closer too CompCams part numbers. That is why I think Lunati is becoming more a legacy cam line from Comp. Cams like we know as a Voodoo 704 and Voodo 705 are now called a 276H10 and a 284H10.

[ponchjoe]

This is what happens when brands get bought up, consolidation. Edelbrock group also has Comp Cams which so far still has a large selection. Butler has been showing Lunati stuff as sold out for some time now and have their own Comp grinds it appears.
Guys, it’s a bummer but we have to realize that it’s been 45 years since the last Pontiac V8 was produced and 15 years since the last Pontiac has been rolled off the assembly line.

[JJDeville]

we used to run the old Bracket Master II. it was a damn good street cam for about $150!

[dataway]

One thing we do have on our side is technology. Computers have changed the world of rapid prototyping and small run parts. There is technology in the pipeline now that precludes the use of giant dies to produce body panels, they are "hand formed" by CNC machines from sheet. How long before cylinderheads can be metal 3d printed like they already are with many high tech components, even entire rocket engines.

We are approaching a point where if you can generate a 3d CAD file of a part, then it can be produced, often without dies, foundries, casting etc. All quite expensive at the moment, but then 20 years ago a 3d printer would cost you $20,000, now you can get a pretty nice one for a few hundred.

Ferrari is using 3d printed pistons in their F1 cars, rare body panels for exotic vintage cars are being produced by CNC forming machines. Dies for injection molding are now whipped out by CNC machines instead of tool and die men.

Who knows, ten years from now the aftermarket might not care about volume demand, they may produce individual parts on demand.