[92GTA]

A friend in our local Pontiac club may sell me his 1969 Trans Am. It has good documentation, but I have noticed there are a few small items that will need to be corrected in order to be of concours quality for judging, which is what I'd want to do. I'm a former NCRS guy, so go figure lol.

Anyway, we've discussed a price and I'm not looking to lower it based on the nitpicky details. BUT what I must do, simply out of due diligence, is go through it and verify all of the numbers and date codes on literally everything I can.

Where does one buy a 1969 Trans Am judging guide so that I can not only cross-reference all of the numbers, but also later use it to correct the inaccuracies, markings, etc.?

I've never played in the Pontiac arena at the concours level like I did in NCRS with my 56 Vette, so I'm not sure who the organizing body that judges these at big national events is to buy a guide from, or if it even exists in a similar form to NCRS.

FWIW, I'm far from a Pontiac novice and currently have a 1969 Firebird. But a car that's already been restored and at the price point of a real 69 Trans Am requires significant due diligence. I was, for a time, an NCRS judge for the 56/57 MY Corvettes, so I'm familiar with how top-flight judging works as well.

Thanks!

[tom s]

Carb and dizzy are 2 really high dollar pieces if a 4 speed.Tom

[92GTA]

Originally Posted by tom s

Carb and dizzy are 2 really high dollar pieces if a 4 speed.Tom

I'd certainly expect so, and yes it is a 4-spd I wouldn't even consider it if it were an auto, even if they are twice as rare.

[maxepr]

Just don't nit pick the guy to death.

[92GTA]

Originally Posted by maxepr

Just don't nit pick the guy to death.

Correct, that is what I said I would not do - word for word in my post.

Again, we have tentatively agreed on a price and I have no intention on trying to jew him down at all. The point of this exercise is for me to know what original parts the car still retains to even know if this is the *right* 69 Trans Am for me to complete the deal when he is ready.


As for this thread, no one has yet been able to point me towards any sort of judging guides. I have received 1 PM with a couple of forum name drops.

I have found that the Pontiac-Oakland Club International (POCI)/Trans Am Chapter has a "1969 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am Concours Judging Manual" that's used for POCI-sanctioned events, but I haven't had any luck finding a used one online like on eBay or Amazon. Does anyone have one for sale?

Thanks!

[RAJ7395]

If you happen to find one, I'd certainly like to have a copy as well.

[65madgoat]

Have him post it for sale on Bring A Trailer and it will be scrutinized to death for ya.

You'll both know more than anything after a run on on there. Ha.

Just joking.

But if you do come across any guide let me know.

[92GTA]

I'll keep you guys in mind for sure. I reached out to my nearest POCI affiliated Pontiac club chapter this week, and the pres was nice enough to provide me with the names and contact info of 2 people who are Firebird/Trans Am tech specialists with POCI.

I'll reach out to them and see where it goes. I'm starting to have a sinking feeling that nothing like the NCRS judging/restoration manuals exists in a similar form for when it comes to Pontiacs. Hopefully I'm wrong. It would be kinda crazy for them to not be a thing by 2025. I mean, are the judges at events just "winging it" from their "experience" rather than actual documented reference cars that manuals were written from? Not sure.

[maxepr]

So did you buy the car?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by 92GTA

... I mean, are the judges at events just "winging it" from their "experience" rather than actual documented reference cars that manuals were written from?

Yes , for the most part.
And they usually won't white glove them down to legit carbs with legit stamping.
Legit engine blocks with factory WQ stamping , and legit factory partial VIN stamping.
Not at any POCI or Bird event.

Gather pictures of pertinent points and post them here - is your best chance.
aka Peer Review

Build week from trim tag
All corresponding date codes from items of your interest
Stampings on distributor , carb and block including partial VIN

Underside of hood
Some guys know the metal repop from the OEM.
Same for rear spoiler.

Wheel codes from around the valve stems
As deep as you want to go with it .....

[muscle_collector]

ill make a post that will ruffle feathers. always does and i will never back down from it.

the judging of these restored cars is a joke. i have never been to a show where a top notch car is judged correctly. if they did they would put major deductions on all of the over restored cars. never did a car come out of the assembly line without defects: wrong items, runs in paint misaligned panels, the list goes on and on.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

defects: wrong items, runs in paint misaligned panels,

That sounds like the majority of the cars for sale on eBay .

[muscle_collector]

i bought trans ams new in the 70's. coolest cars on the road in my opinion, but were absolutely horrible quality control. the list of bad quality just goes on and on. and never was there a trans am sold to the general public (basically excluding any show cars) that didnt come with horribly wavy doors. so when are the " expert " judges going to start deducting points on restored cars with doors that have been worked over without waves in them? lol

[jabgolfcars]

Originally Posted by RAJ7395

If you happen to find one, I'd certainly like to have a copy as well.

X 2

[Tellyshavilli]

Originally Posted by 92GTA

I'll keep you guys in mind for sure. I reached out to my nearest POCI affiliated Pontiac club chapter this week, and the pres was nice enough to provide me with the names and contact info of 2 people who are Firebird/Trans Am tech specialists with POCI.

I'll reach out to them and see where it goes. I'm starting to have a sinking feeling that nothing like the NCRS judging/restoration manuals exists in a similar form for when it comes to Pontiacs. Hopefully I'm wrong. It would be kinda crazy for them to not be a thing by 2025. I mean, are the judges at events just "winging it" from their "experience" rather than actual documented reference cars that manuals were written from? Not sure.

I can try to help you I’ll send you a PM with my contact info

[burd]

Saw a guy at Norwalk, got marked down for taking theceaves out, I jus do cars and coffee nowadays, no judging, no plastic trophy’s.