[Baron Von Zeppelin]

You just bought an expensive Scam .
Forged PHS document of a base GTO that was originally Q1 - 268
Verdoro Green , White Top , Black Bench Seat

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13614043503...Bk9SR9b47-3-ZQ

The Judge option forged onto bottom line of Invoice.
Do the math and compare MSRP
Another quick clue is Rally 2 wheels were not an option on 69 Judge , they were standard equipment.

Repop Trim Tag forged to fool , different paint depth color and texture than rest of the black cowl paint
Fairly recent swap job..

Restamped WT engine block to "appear" as a WS

Bend over and say ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ............

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Description from the seller :

OWNERSHIP HISTORY:

This 1969 GTO Judge was built in July 1969 and delivered new to Pontiac Motor Division in Gaithersburg, MA. It was then purchased and immediately transported to California where it resided until 1985. The original owner moved to Scottsdale, AZ where the car has since resided. The car was later sold in 2004 to the original owner’s family member, a local collector and good friend of mine. The second owner did a complete frame off rotisserie restoration between 2005-2006. He passed away in 2023, and I acquired the car on consignment from his widow in 2024.

DOCUMENTATION & EXTRAS:

PHS Documentation
Restoration Photos
Original Black California License Plates

[sdbob]

Interesting story. If I was purchasing a rare car with high value. I'd double ck all the info. Call for PHS myself. Visit the car personally. If possible bring sheriff or state police with me to see their reactions.Not be in a hurry. There is always another car available. I'm no expert but those rivets look funny,like not original looking.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The rivets are excellent reproductions.
And the reproduction trim tags are getting pretty excellent too.

Where they always screw up is not making detailed close up pictures of how the putty in the original rivets looked before they removed them.
They just mash stuff in there and call it a day.

The biggest details are how they missed a few steps on their invoice forgery.
And Rookie restamp on the block code.
Can always make multiple excuses about trim tags , putty & rivets.

[sdbob]

The block stamping would make me curious. The W is very pronounced but the 2 letter isnt. I could believe initial stamping but I would look closer.At all the numbers and get info from a Judg expert.

[400 4spd.]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

You just bought an expensive Scam .
Forged PHS document of a base GTO that was originally Q1 - 268
Verdoro Green , White Top , Black Bench Seat

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13614043503...Bk9SR9b47-3-ZQ

The Judge option forged onto bottom line of Invoice.
Do the math and compare MSRP
Another quick clue is Rally 2 wheels were not an option on 69 Judge , they were standard equipment.

Repop Trim Tag forged to fool , different paint depth color and texture than rest of the black cowl paint
Fairly recent swap job..

Restamped WT engine block to "appear" as a WS

Bend over and say ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch ............

The only thing that could look worse would be a polished trim tag.

[71GP76TA]

I am not an expert.. not even close. This is a prime example of why I buy unrestored cars.

[ponchjoe]

I swear I can see a T in that S…

[242177P]

There's an 8.5 out back. Not a bad upgrade for a fun driver.
But for a $145K numbers-match Judge? This base GTO has
a WT that's been restamped, a period correct transmission,
and the wrong diff. Even if it was a real Judge, rear swaybar
wasn't until 1970. And this is aftermarket. "Museum quality".

Buyer filing a lawsuit in 3, 2 ...

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I hope somehow the grapevine finds the buyer before it's too late.

or maybe they can get a partial refund ,,, of around 90k+

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

There is a 69 Judge Hdtp currently on eBay that is also a lawsuit car.
Rebody , rookie restamps on engine and trans , corroded Framingham VIN plate on a proposed virgin rust free body.
Faked repop trim tag that is 5 months off from the VIN.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26732216893...4AAeSwoR9obtZm

But the VIN does match the PHS , and the PHS appears legit.
Was a Pattern Judge , must have been a zone use car originally , and re-billed in July.

They went by the Invoice date to get a trim tag made.
That means they didn't have the car , just the VIN plate.

02A by the VIN of other Framingham Judges in the Registry
Brand New 07B tag on the car.

Seller had a shaky rep when in the NE , now in PNW
Tony , formally of Custom Classics- Ninobolo

[dataway]

Close ups.

[thepontiacman]

Buyer should always inspect or have inspected by someone that knows what to look for.

Sometimes its obvious but buyers get excited and make a mistake $$$$.

I recently saw one that went through a auction that has pop rivets holding quarters and many things missing, wrong engine, quicky paint job, no tail pipes, thick gloss paint on cowl/engine compartment, and more.

[GTOnly70]

The forged engine stampings on the convertible are laughably bad.

[Limelight69]

Wow! Brutal.

[Skidmark]

Originally Posted by 71GP76TA

I am not an expert.. not even close. This is a prime example of why I buy unrestored cars.

And why i bought one of your previously owned cars. Lol. I'm no expert either.

Hope the new ebay buyer of the GTO gets their money back.

[post toastie]

the rear axle, thats not the correct 69 ten bolt

[skunkwerks]

Transmission is M20 and 19S vin stamp. 1969 Corvette built is St louis.

Not correct Vin but date is close.

[skunkwerks]

Lower motor Vin with last 4 digits stamped looks legit. I have seen motors stamped like this. Heavy on the one side and the rest was unreadable. Have seen many very light on left side with first three letters not seen. Many no stamped motors that were original to car. I can still see the circular broach marks from GM's circular broaching mill. No one does that type of broaching anymore.
Motor sequence number looks legit. Agreed the S is suspect. But the W is correct. Very odd. So the theory of a forged paperwork fits. They had to forge the Judge on the PHS to get this to work out. To bad the original GTO conv 4 speed is worth a little money also but not Judge money.

[Judge273]

Invoice forgery is so easy to prove.
That leads to deception of trim tag.
Restamps
So on and so forth.
A lawyers dream lawsuit.