[JJDeville]

I have always wondered why Pontiac did not use the wide 14x7 Rally II wheels when they were readily available and used them on Firebirds and Grand Prixs. After all they were Wide Track Pontiac! A guy that was friends with my Dad and I got to be friends with later in life bought 17 new Judges and owned no telling how many used ones. He could get more for them than he gave because he was well known for having the nicest sharpest ones around. He put 14x7 Rally II wheels on all of those Judges. When I first got into GTOs back in the mid 80s I thought the restored cars looked goofy with the little narrow 14x6 wheels. I thought that was wrong. I talked to Simp about it and he said he called down to the salvage yard and told them to bring him a set of station wagon wheels and he would trade them the narrow ones. He called any deep factory reversed wheels station wagon wheels because they came out on the 1962 Chevrolet station wagons and 409 cars. Up until that point they cut the centers out and reversed the rims. I still like the wide Pontiac mags as we called them on 69 and 70 Judges and GTOs. In 1970 all of the other divisions had 14x7 wheels on their A body cars. It is something that I have never understood. Anybody got any insight into this?

[JJDeville]

Here is a set on my 70. They look just right!

[GTO JONES]

I bought my 69 GTO new and it came 14" steel wheels with dog dish hubcaps. I'm still run the hubcaps on the car with 15" steel wheels and I still have the 14".

[scott70]

Originally Posted by JJDeville

Here is a set on my 70. They look just right!

Factory mint turquoise?

The look better than the 14x6.

I put 14x7 with rings first thing back in the 80’s. I still have them but a couple of years ago I put on 15’s rally 2 from wheels vintique. Better size selection . My 14’s still have 235/70-14 from 1988. Nobody makes the 235 anymore which is the same as the G70 in size. 225 looked a little too small to me.

[JJDeville]

Yes. Factory Mint Turquoise. Not a Judge but a matching numbers 350 horse 4 speed with ice cold factory air GTO that I bought from the son of the original owner. Original owner was an Air Force Cadet that graduated in 1970. All of the graduating class bought new 1970 Corvettes except him and he bought this GTO. I still have the 14x6 wheels that came on it. To me the 14x7 wheels are the only way to go.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by JJDeville

Yes. Factory Mint Turquoise. Not a Judge but a matching numbers 350 horse 4 speed with ice cold factory air GTO that I bought from the son of the original owner. Original owner was an Air Force Cadet that graduated in 1970. All of the graduating class bought new 1970 Corvettes except him and he bought this GTO. I still have the 14x6 wheels that came on it. To me the 14x7 wheels are the only way to go.

The mint turquoise is definitely a unique color,,, I’ve had plenty of compliments. Back in the day I probably wouldn’t have bought one but the color has grown on me. Your car looks good. Mine came with saddle interior which wasn’t on pontiacs preferred list with that exterior color but someone ordered it like that…the dealership I think.

[694.1]

wow. A week & 1/2 and the crowd is stumped?

[JJDeville]

Surely someone on this panel will chime in.

[turbo69bird]

I have no idea why, but I agree with you the 7s were the way to go.
Doesn’t make sense

My guess would be the same ole story same ole song and dance. Daddy Gm didn’t want Chevys toes stepped on.

[johnta1]

Don't think I have seen any factory bulletins on it.
I always thought the Firebirds got the 7" wide for the disc brakes. Didn't really know the GTO had the 6" wide on them until later in life. (No GTOs for a long time)

[johnta1]

This is from my notes:

'70 Pontiac A-bodies equipped with Rally II wheels built from start of '70 production up till about the end of November of '69 used 14x6 Rally II wheel code JL. This would be the code whether your car was equipped with drum or disc front brakes. Unless your '70 is built the very last few days of November, it would be smart to say, if originally equipped with Rally II's, the car should have JL's. Why the change in codes...When the "two piece" rotor (separate hub) was changed to the integral rotor & hub, the JT Rally II was brought into production. I do not have a '70 asm manual handy, but the latest JL's, I've had were dated 11-24-9. The earliest JT's, I ever had were dated 11-25-9. These dates coincide with when Chevy changed from YA's to AO's on their 14x7 SuperStock I wheels... for the same reason (change in rotor design).

This is from OPH, from a thread which I didn't write down.

I do think I read some bulletin about changing wheels for the 2 piece rotor. (but don't think it said from 6" to 7" width)
Would have to search to see if I have it still.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Don't think I have seen any factory bulletins on it.
I always thought the Firebirds got the 7" wide for the disc brakes. Didn't really know the GTO had the 6" wide on them until later in life. (No GTOs for a long time)

I have been following this thread, because I was curious too...

I just want to point out that the standard Firebird wheel, like the GTO was in fact a 14x6";
Using my knowledge of 1970 model year:
The steel wheel code used for base & Esprit models for 1970-1972 was 'AM';
I am unsure on the 6" wide Rally II wheel code used on '70-72 Firebirds;
I have a note in my file that the "F-bodies; 050” offset";
Maybe the offset was key?

The use of a 7" wheel on a 70 Firebird was wholly dependent on the tire;
There were four types, of three sizes of tires used on the 1970 Firebird:
E78-14 = standard on base & esprit; c/w 6" wide wheel
F78-14 = optional on base & Esprit; c/w 7" wide wheel
F70-14 = standard on Formula; optional on base & Esprit; c/w 7" wide wheel
F70-14 raise white letter = optional on base, Esprit & Formula; c/w 7" wide wheel

I would guess that the 1969 Firebird model year was a similar deal - the standard (non-Rally) wheel used on those cars was either an IF or an XT;
The IF was also used (afaik) on the GP.
I have JK & JM as the 7" Rally used for pre-1970 Firebirds.

I would also like to point out that the 6" wide wheel was still wider than some on other GM cars of the time;
I have a 14x5"(!?) steelie here with a vintage RWL tire on it that IIRC coded out as a Chevelle wheel.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Was never aware that 71 GTO didn't offer a 14x7 R2 option.
71-up just never were my items of desire.

What about 14x7 Honeycomb wheels ? Was that a 71 GTO option ?

[JJDeville]

Yes 14x7 Honeycomb wheels were an option on 1971 GTOs. My question is why would Pontiac not use the wide 14x7 Rally 2 wheels that were readily available as they were used on Firebirds and Grand Prixs starting in 1969.

[msharri11]

I'm unsure about the 69 to 71 GTO's but the 1972 LeMans GT option used 14 x 7 "K" wheels (I own one). I was always curious why the 1972 GTO option used just 14 x 6 wheels. It didn't make a lot of sense but a lot domestic vehicle manufacturer's choices don't / didn't make much sense.

[unruhjonny]

My guess is that the key here is the tire that the car came with.

I noticed just now that my last post has a typo of sorts - i have added in bold the missing part:

…
The use of a 7" wheel on a 70 Firebird was wholly dependent on the tire;
…
I would guess that the 1969 Firebird model year was a similar deal - the standard (non-Rally) wheel used on those cars with F70-14 (eg: Firebird 400) was either an IF or an XT;
The IF was also used (afaik) on the GP.
…

[muscle_collector]

so if you had a 72 lemans that had the sport and the gt option, what would the standard wheels have been?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

There are possibly some factory literature type documents on Mike Nouns site that might list out what those options packages brought.
www.gt-37.com

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

There are possibly some factory literature type documents on Mike Nouns site that might list out what those options packages brought.
www.gt-37.com

It looks like he no longer owns that url.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

My fault , it's a .org

www.gt-37.org

Sorry about that.

Tons of factory stuff on his website.
Sometimes it is a little tricky drilling into it.