[GOAT8U2]

0awg battery ground
4awg alternator positive post to battery (.02v loss)

I should've included the Awg part, my badd.

Big battery and alternator grounds really helped my car.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by GOAT8U2

0awg battery ground

Probably a bit on the huge side, but not horrible, and no harm done except the extra weight.

What size is the battery-to-Starter cable? 4-gauge? There is NO reason to have one side of the circuit four gauge sizes larger than the other side of the circuit.

Originally Posted by GOAT8U2

4awg alternator positive post to battery (.02v loss)

Unless you've got some monster alternator, AND heavy electrical loads, that's just silly. That's starter-cable size, not alternator size. Hanging that much copper off of the lil' stud on the alternator is risky. Factory gauge would have been...10 or perhaps 8. Six-gauge would easily be enough of an "upgrade". Around here, the parts stores are stocking 6-gauge cables on the display rack as BATTERY CABLES. (Yes, that's way undersized for a battery cable for anything with a real engine.)

WHAT is your starter-motor amperage draw? The old 10MT, "High Torque" starters on select big-block cars would draw up to 225 amps, but most vehicles were between 170--200.

WHAT is your alternator output in actual testing by lowering battery voltage with a carbon-pile? (Not the phonied-up "rating", over-estimated for marketing purposes.)

[GOAT8U2]

My records state (I have 3 cars I go deep restorations on)
0awg battery to starter
0awg ground off battery

160amp alternator, built locally, every document I've seen said that if I actually need 140+ amps 4awg wire.

The original alternator to starter was 8awg, there was a .8v loss at the battery. Then I added an 8awg ground on alt case too head and 4awg 3ft to battery, now only a .02v loss, can't really get better.

Only a .7-.9v drop in volts while cranking, Lithium battery helped here too in other ways.

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by bdk1976

I would wait until you install your new 1/0 cable before worrying about the battery. Report back after you get/install your new cables. I changed over to a mini-starter with 1/0 battery cables (power and ground) and my hot cranking problems went away.

will do, will also be testing the alternator for running output.

[GOAT8U2]

Tom I was in your same situation decades ago...

Hot start issues
This is when I went overkill and updated both battery ground and positive wires. This helped only a little bit.

If you're battery is truly good....

My solution was mini, high torque starter with heat shield. This was the fix in my situation, battery was good and battery wires were good and that still wasn't enough, needed a better starter. Old engine was 11.3 compression.

You'll get there and at least you'll have upgraded new parts that should cure possible future issues.

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by GOAT8U2

Tom I was in your same situation decades ago...

Hot start issues
This is when I went overkill and updated both battery ground and positive wires. This helped only a little bit.

If you're battery is truly good....

My solution was mini, high torque starter with heat shield. This was the fix in my situation, battery was good and battery wires were good and that still wasn't enough, needed a better starter. Old engine was 11.3 compression.

You'll get there and at least you'll have upgraded new parts that should cure possible future issues.

thanks, I already have a Summit mini-starter in it. Hopefully it's not Chinese junk. I'll be fabbing a heat shield and installing the larger cables this weekend and running some voltage drop tests.

[70GS455]

Don't muck around with a wimpy battery. Odyssey AGM group 24. At 840 CCA you won't find any higher. Also made in the USA!

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ODYO...NnhVTs2Wv4jdBs

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

"The pinion on the solenoid will fire but the starter will not engage."

Ok, so either the battery is poor, not being charged when the engine is running, poor connections from the battery to the starter, or poor internal connections in the starter solenoid.
When the solenoid drives the pinion out, it also makes an internal high current connection from the battery cable to the internal starter motor.

Attaching a jump box and having it start when hot (after running) seems to indicate the battery is not charging well when running.

George

Hang with me, this is a long and perhaps confusing post. So, it appears the battery was not charging when running. To test it, I hooked up my multimeter to the battery neg and pos posts, it showed the battery voltage at 12.20 volts when not running. I then started the engine, and the voltage started to decline. Revving the engine to 2500rpm showed no improvement. I assume it should have read at least 14.20 volts if the alternator was working. To test the alternator directly I disconnected leads from the battery and hooked them directly to the alternator output terminal and grounded to the case. THIS IS WHERE IT STARTS TO GET WEIRD. Upon starting the engine, the alternator output was 14.40. So, it's good, right? During this testing the alternator or it's belt was making a screeching noise, so I shut it down and loosened the belt quite a bit. Upon starting engine again, the screech was gone, and the alternator output was still at 14.40. At that point I disconnected the multimeter leads from the alternator case and put them directly on the battery leads. NOW the battery showed it was charging at 14.20 and climbing. It eventually got to 14.40 volts and stayed there. After letting it run for 15 mins. I shut it down. The battery voltage was now showing 12.80 volts and has remained there for several hours. Problem solved? Who knows, I'm a flummoxed. Why loosening the alternator belt made such a difference is beyond me. Anyway, I'll take her for a test drive tomorrow to see how she does and let you know. Thanks for all the help guys.

[george kujanski]

Loosening the belt eliminating a screech may indiicate a bad alt bearing. Take the belt off and turn it by hand to see if you can detect a bad bearing.

Having the belt too lose will cause slippage, so that is not a solution, either.

george

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

Loosening the belt eliminating a screech may indiicate a bad alt bearing. Take the belt off and turn it by hand to see if you can detect a bad bearing.

Having the belt too lose will cause slippage, so that is not a solution, either.

george

well the alternator is toast. Screaming loudly now regardless how tight the belt is and the battery is not charging. It is a Powermaster unit but I'm not sure what the output is. I just ordered a 150 amp replacement because my car has ac, aftermarket stereo with large amp and bass speaker, power drivers seat and power antenna.. Hopefully it will solve my problem. I still intend to install the 1/0 battery cables and starter heat shield.

[steve25]

Well at least you know the battery will take a charge .
On a side note here it’s a easy 45 minute job to replace the two Alt bearings if you have a 1/2 drive impact gun and the needed size socket , but it can be done in a bench vise with 12” adjustable wrench a long with the needed size Allen wrench.
Be sure to pack the new bearings well with wheel bearing grease.

I think putting new bearings in was the first hands on thing I in middle school auto shop way way back when.

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by steve25

Well at least you know the battery will take a charge .
On a side note here it’s a easy 45 minute job to replace the two Alt bearings if you have a 1/2 drive impact gun and the needed size socket , but it can be done in a bench vise with 12” adjustable wrench a long with the needed size Allen wrench.
Be sure to pack the new bearings well with wheel bearing grease.

I think putting new bearings in was the first hands on thing I in middle school auto shop way way back when.

thanks

[GOAT8U2]

I used this guide to get my alternator to battery loss to be .02v instead of the .8v prior, same setup. 6awg seems plenty if you go alt to battery 3ft etc and similar ground off alt case rear hole and you're back in action.

[george kujanski]

My opinion is that you don't need a giant output alt unless you have electric fans. Those are the biggest power hogs where you need lower RPM, high current outputs.

George

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by george kujanski

My opinion is that you don't need a giant output alt unless you have electric fans. Those are the biggest power hogs where you need lower RPM, high current outputs.

George

so you're saying a 150 amp alternator is likely overkill and I understand that. My only real concern is if the stock alternator to battery wiring will be okay or will it need be to be upgraded to a larger diameter. I believe the stock wire is about 10-12awg? If that's the case then I'll send it back.

[george kujanski]

The only conditions that the alt provides high current is if the lod demands it. Your loss are are not unless your audio is, say 200 watts, in which case it's probably providing 20 amps to that. Add in headlights, about 10 amps, etc. You probably will never use even half of the max capacity., so no sense in going crazy with cable size at the alt.

George

[george kujanski]

Editing.. your loads are not large unless your audio is like 22 watts per channel, that may be 40 amps or so. But intermittent.

George

[george kujanski]

Edit... again...darn fingers 200 watts per channel.
Hate typing on the fone...

George

[GOAT8U2]

As long as you are running a CS130 alt with single positive post and have the open hole for the external ground.

You can easily add an 8awg ground wire off the alt case. Pic 1
**My newer alt has the hole on the rear vs the side bracket like this Powermaster XS.

You can easily add a 6awg wire off the single alt positive post to the battery. Pic 2

You can now run any alternator and not worry about the wiring losses/efficiency.

[KEN CROCIE]

Have you checked the pinion to flywheel clearance? Flywheels grow when they get hot.