[P@blo]

Red Line Engine Oil Break-In Additive. Have at it boys...

SKU: 81403

Bottle (16oz) contains:
33.8 grams total ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate)
17,000 ppm, 7.8 grams Phosphorus (P)
20,500 ppm, 9.4 grams Zinc (Zn)
16.6 grams Sulphur (S)

[Schurkey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erxjPicpYyw

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wE4Q-EETYQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wE4Q-EETYQ[/URL

If you think you need an additive...you picked the wrong oil.

[P@blo]

Sorry Schurkey I did not watch the videos.

The HDEO I run is the Supertech 15W40 CK-4 made by Safety-Kleen. Sometimes I feel like being a rebel and run the 10W30 ST HDEO. Both have ~1300 ppm of zinc so it is good enough on its own. I add 3oz of the additive to my oil during change to get me 1800ppm. No need for boutique oils for this cat.

Additive $1.25/oz or 1000ppm x 3
Oil $4.30/L x 6
$29.55 Canadian per oil change

Add a Baldwin filter for $8 and I am at $40 for an oil change. VR1 is $16/litre here and is a waste of money if you ask me. New cams get the full bottle of the RL and dumped right away after break-in.

Also, I prorit nothing by sharing this information and the Red Line is a great alternative for guys that did run the EOS. I just used my last bottle of EOS this past weekend.

[Formulas]

When I get to the point when break in is done and after the point of oil change i use a good oil which locally happens to be Penn Grade i still use zinc and a moly and STP that has zddp additive except i use a couple ounces of each instead of the whole bottle, Rislone @ Advance auto parts is another option think O'reilles has it too.

[78w72]

1800ppm? What size cam? Why would the average street engine/cam need that high of zddp after the cam is broken in? Not even VR1 has that much zddp.

Ive ran good off the shelf oils on stock Pontiac or even mild ~.480 lift broken in cams for 30+ years, never had a cam or lifter or engine problem related to oil. Most modern oils are around 900ppm and have other additives to compensate for the lowered zddp... plus far better base stock oils that together dont need crazy high amounts of zinc.

For break in purposes or as an additive to raise the amount, Lucas TB zinc+ is another very good option, but again, not needed for fully broken in cams, especially stock size cams.

[Rocky Rotella]

Wow.

I'm glad I bought a case of the good EOS from GM when I did!

[cmoc-bob]

I've attending some of Lake's AERA seminars, very good.

Thanks for posting.

When ZDDP began to disappear, the Tribology industry did a SAE study on additives, pretty sure they all made a mess of the base oil.

And didn't do anything for very long.

[cmoc-bob]

Remember, GM EOS was only used to break in a motor back in the day, not to supplement your base oil.

Mixing anything into your base oil is playing Russian Roulette with the additive package already in the base oil.....

Lake Speed's "Motor Oil Geek" series on YouTube is very good.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erxjPicpYyw

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wE4Q-EETYQ"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wE4Q-EETYQ[/URL

If you think you need an additive...you picked the wrong oil.

There is something to it, but there is also good things to be had with someadditives.
Shaeffers, who makes the best oil you will ever find makes a molly additive.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JF2LGF2..._asin_title_39
Their engineer's told me its for other brands of oil. if you add it to their oil it will have too much molly.
If a oil (Shaeffers) get you real horsepower on a dyno vs a known good oil like Mobil 1, AND gets you one million miles on a gasoline engine, whatever is in that oil is for me.
I have ran the Lucas Oil Stabilizer with Pro Long in my cars for years and never had any sort of issue. In fact I just put a head on my 300,000 mile Civic engine. Pulled the pan off and was planning on putting new pistons, rings, main and rod bearings when I did the head. Had all the stuff. But the bearings were still in good shape, pistons were still tight in their bores. So I put the pan back on as is with the new head and timing belt.
So, while the Lucas does decrease your oils lubricity as it takes up space. It does make the oil you do have very sticky and clingy. And that has a benefit all by itself. I know it works.
Particularly in old engines in cars that sit for long periods of time like most Pontiacs do in this day.
But, the race can and the Tundra get straight Shaeffers oil, no additives. My other cars will get the Lucas and Prolong in cheap synthetic oil.

[Goatracer1]

Have you tried Mopar for EOS? They had the same stuff. When there was an AMC they even used it.

[P@blo]

Well to make you all cringe more. The Safety-Kleen is recycled and somehow rigs running it get to the million mile mark as well. Crazy world we live in today I say. 1250ppm in the base oil is probably fine but its not like the oil companies have a zinc reader that sends the <= to waste during production. They take grab samples to represent the product and is a small window of the production run.

I wear a ring that anytime it is on my finger sharks do not attack me therefore it must prevent shark attacks. Same logic applies to my 1800ppm of zinc. No shark attacks as of yet but zinc is a consumable.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

Wow.

I'm glad I bought a case of the good EOS from GM when I did!

Was that case of the good stuff bought in the 80s?

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Sorry Schurkey I did not watch the videos.

The HDEO I run is the Supertech 15W40 CK-4

There are multiple points you're missing.

1. A proper oil for the application does not need "additives".

2. "Zinc" or ZDDP is offset by the oil's detergent additives. So again, all the hobbyists focus on the "zinc" and have no concern or knowledge about detergent.

3. There are other high-pressure oil additives besides ZDDP. ZDDP is popular because it's cheaper.

4. Excess ZDDP increases engine wear.

5. Some chemicals added to oil--either at the packaging plant or by the consumer after the packaged oil has been poured-in, contribute to detonation. I guess this is especially critical for direct-injection engines, and of course our Pontiacs are not direct-injection.

6. Heavy-duty ("Diesel") oils even if dual-rated for spark ignition engines still have a poor additive package for the demands of spark-ignition engines. They really are designed to work in the "Diesel" environment.


Buy the RIGHT oil, leave the additional additives on the shelf.

[PontiacHO]

In my opinion… GM EOS had the zinc formula greatly reduced 20 years ago. Not an additive recommended for flat tappet can break in for two decades.

[Formulajones]

Just use a good oil and skip the additives. Additives have shown to do more harm than good. If you aren't doing oil analysis you have no idea how all this is affecting your engine anyway, and basing your success on the fact you haven't had a failure yet is just asinine. If you really want to know the facts send a sample to Blackstone. Report back the findings so everyone here can make a more educated decision.

[Kenth]

In 1965 Pontiac said E.O.S. must be added at every oil change.

That says a lot about the motor oils of the time.

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Sorry Schurkey I did not watch the videos.

The HDEO I run is the Supertech 15W40 CK-4 made by Safety-Kleen. Sometimes I feel like being a rebel and run the 10W30 ST HDEO. Both have ~1300 ppm of zinc so it is good enough on its own. I add 3oz of the additive to my oil during change to get me 1800ppm. No need for boutique oils for this cat.

Additive $1.25/oz or 1000ppm x 3
Oil $4.30/L x 6
$29.55 Canadian per oil change

Add a Baldwin filter for $8 and I am at $40 for an oil change. VR1 is $16/litre here and is a waste of money if you ask me. New cams get the full bottle of the RL and dumped right away after break-in.

Also, I prorit nothing by sharing this information and the Red Line is a great alternative for guys that did run the EOS. I just used my last bottle of EOS this past weekend.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Everyone has complained for years and years (decades) that oil has been getting worse and worse for these old engines. You found a setup that works for you with ample ingredients of the good stuff, and now you get arguments against it.

Welcome to PY, where the topic of oil would probably result in fists flying if it were discussed in person

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

There is something to it, but there is also good things to be had with someadditives.
Shaeffers, who makes the best oil you will ever find makes a molly additive.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JF2LGF2..._asin_title_39
Their engineer's told me its for other brands of oil. if you add it to their oil it will have too much molly.
If a oil (Shaeffers) get you real horsepower on a dyno vs a known good oil like Mobil 1, AND gets you one million miles on a gasoline engine, whatever is in that oil is for me.
I have ran the Lucas Oil Stabilizer with Pro Long in my cars for years and never had any sort of issue. In fact I just put a head on my 300,000 mile Civic engine. Pulled the pan off and was planning on putting new pistons, rings, main and rod bearings when I did the head. Had all the stuff. But the bearings were still in good shape, pistons were still tight in their bores. So I put the pan back on as is with the new head and timing belt.
So, while the Lucas does decrease your oils lubricity as it takes up space. It does make the oil you do have very sticky and clingy. And that has a benefit all by itself. I know it works.
Particularly in old engines in cars that sit for long periods of time like most Pontiacs do in this day.
But, the race can and the Tundra get straight Shaeffers oil, no additives. My other cars will get the Lucas and Prolong in cheap synthetic oil.

I had like 20 bottles of that shaeffers moly EP stuff, sold all but a few of them after researching whats actually in it... there is almost no moly contrary to the name, less than most modern off the shelf oils, a VOA done at bobistheoilgy showed 25ppm of moly & almost no zddp. What it does have is what they call micron-moly that doesnt show up in analysis as well as an anti wear additive not found in most oils called "antimony" along with a good carrier/thickener. So just be aware, it is very low on moly but has other good proprietary additives.
VOA-
Moly 25
Phosphorus 120
Zinc 10
Antimony 64
Vi @ 100c 220

Agree with shurkey on using a good oil to start with & limit additives... too much zddp has other problems and there are many additives in todays oil that compensate for the reduced levels of zddp. Ive also mentioned a few times that modern zddp lasts longer than the older stuff so not as much is needed to do the same job, valvoline used to state that in their oil FAQ section just a couple years ago.

[Formulas]

Antimony is a metal Atomic #51 ... There is a company that primarily mines it stock symbol UAMY / USAC if you would of bought in a month ago you would be up approx. 184% ask me how i know

[jerry455]

I never realized GM EOS has been around that long. I became aware of it during the mid to late 70's when the Chevrolet 305's were having cam failures. My dad worked on a lot of them and always had EOS in the garage.