[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by cmoc-bob

Lake mentioned when ZDDP was phased out

ZDDP was not, and is not "phased out".

It has been generally reduced, not eliminated.

Originally Posted by cmoc-bob

Now, as the years progressed, plenty of poorly made off-shore flat tappets and cams came into the mix

There's the REAL problem. The cam companies blamed the failure of their poor product on the oil, using the EPA as a scapegoat. And because anyone with sense does not trust the Government to act in our best interest, it was an easy "sell"--getting us to believe the EPA-mandated ZDDP reduction in the oil was the problem when it was really cheap, imported, defective cams 'n' lifters.

Yeah, the detergent/ZDDP balance is better now. Live 'n' learn.

[cmoc-bob]

correct, my bad

[P@blo]

Red Line additive is sold online and is a better alternative than EOS. Works great with HDEO in our classic Pontiac's.

I was warned about this topic lo!

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Geoff

Lake Speed, the Motor OIL Geek, has some good videos on oils.
Scientific testing, not opinion, not guessing.

A very interesting one was a FT cam used with oil that had 1200ppm of Zinc.
Very little wear. Then an 'additive' with 3600 ppm of Zinc was added & the cam/lifters failed not long afterwards.

The moral of the story: get the right oil & do not add additives which can destroy the delicate oil package.

Delicate why?

[Dragncar]

I think some concoctions have ruined engines. Some chemicals should not be mixed I guess.
That said, I know basic synthetic oil with some Lucas and Prolong will not hurt a thing. Done it for years and have never hurt a engine or worn out a engine in my life.
I run the Shaeffers straight up though.

[P@blo]

Can also be used in conventional and synthetic oils during regular operation, providing an extra package of protection otherwise not found in most motor oils

There are two types of people in the world: those that know they do not know, and those that do not know they do not know.

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

GM said in later years that EOS was not for regular, perpetual use.

What time period are we talking? Post cats?

[cmoc-bob]

Well, that is marketing hype.

Have your oil tested, send them base oil, oil run without the additive and then oil you run with the additive.

Assuming you really want to know the results of additives.

Else, mix in whatever you want, your motor, your call.

[Elarson]

Long time ago, I was in a parts store. Another customer came in to get stuff for an oil change. He asked for the cheapest filter they had and asked for the cheapest oil they had. Then he noticed the Slick 50 display and asked the counter guy if it was good. Counter guy said "We sell a lot of it and nobody has brought any back". Cheap oil guy was impressed and bought a bottle. I'm betting he could have bought the best oil and filter and come out cheaper with better protection.

Eric

[cmoc-bob]

When Slick 50 first came out, they did a TV commercial, drained the oil and drove a car for 90 miles.

And showed a running motor with Slick 50 on a stand, drained the oil out. Motor kept running.

What they didn't tell people, if I remember the Tribology study right, stuff was just that. Some stupid amount of ZDDP. Nothing else.

Motor would seize up after it stopped, internally rust, etc.

Thought it was "slick" marketing for sure.

[Steve C.]

Slick 50

What's in it......

https://slick50store.com/cdn/shop/pr...g?v=1644945108


Slick 50 Original Engine Treatment is engineered to outperform and optimize engine performance. The original PTFE Slick 50 Engine Treatment has been updated with Cerflon® technology to create a ceramic reinforcement of your internal engine parts. Slick 50 technology increases lubricity and durability for lubricants and coatings.

The chemical compound, Boron Nitride, is added to the fluoropolymer - also known by the DuPont registered trademark Teflon. Not only is Boron Nitride the only material known to fully reinforce the fluoropolymer, in fact, in a 4 Ball Wear Test an industry-standard test that measures the wear protection of a fluid on a metal surface, a base oil compound with Cerflon scores 15% better than a base oil compound in PTFE alone.


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[P@blo]

All you guys have left is anecdotals. Where are your youtube chemical engineers and OA to clarify?

Word on the street is Slick50 is pretty slick

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by cmoc-bob

Well, that is marketing hype.

Have your oil tested, send them base oil, oil run without the additive and then oil you run with the additive.

Assuming you really want to know the results of additives.

Else, mix in whatever you want, your motor, your call.

How much information do you have to provide the analysis lab prior to the report? Can they tell you what the oils is being used for and how well it is performing without you explaining how the lubricant is being used first? Nope. Shurely they know the mileage and how hard you are pushing your equipment too right? Fact is the analysis is to notice trends through the intended life of the lubricant and hopefully reduce wear. At $30 for the oil a $75 analysis does not make a lot of sense.

Screw compressors with $4000 worth of food grade lubricant yes but $50-100 lubricants I am thinking not so much. Your mileage may vary though.

[cmoc-bob]

Contact the companies to find out.

Purpose was to inform people that mixing additives into base oils is a bad practice.

If you want to mix additives and say it's great because that is what you want to do - be it Slick 50, EOS or Redline - go right ahead.

Your motor and your money - saying it's sound science and engineering I think has been proven otherwise.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by P@blo

All you guys have left is anecdotals. Where are your youtube chemical engineers and OA to clarify?

Word on the street is Slick50 is pretty slick

Basic oil analysis at blackstone are $40 now, have been $25-30 for the last 20+ years.

Back on page 1 I asked a simple question as to why you feel your engine/oil needs 1800ppm of zddp after cam break in... got nothing but crickets and so far nothing but your anecdotal statements that you think are somehow more valid than what experts on oils or actual people that engineer the oils, tribologists, and oil companies state.

Its a fact too much zddp is not good for normal use and playing tribologist with additives is rarely better than the actual oil itself. Nobody is saying your gonna blow up the engine, just that a good oil is better than almost any home made additive filled oil.

Its also a fact that modern oils are far better than oils of even 20 years ago let alone 30-40 when they had to use gobs of zddp because the base stocks were crap and most modern additives didnt exist in oil back then like they do now.

Today, with other modern additives & advanced zddp that doesnt wear out as fast, the ridiculous high levels are simply not needed for the majority of fully broken in stock to mild cams. Ive ran good brand off the shelf oils in stock size FT cam daily drivers for 100k+ miles as well as stock pontiac cams and what I consider mild street cams with ~.480 lift for 30+ years, never had a cam/lifter/engine problem related to oil. Ever.

Thats on SM, SN or SN+ API oil with an average of 900ppm zddp along with other modern anti wear additives like moly etc... 30+ years. Am I doing something wrong and should be pouring in additives or buying $10+/qt racing oils for my stock to mild cam engines?

[Formulajones]

I'll assume you've at least sent a sample in if for nothing else at least to see how well your oil and filters are doing.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by P@blo

How much information do you have to provide the analysis lab prior to the report? Can they tell you what the oils is being used for and how well it is performing without you explaining how the lubricant is being used first? Nope. Shurely they know the mileage and how hard you are pushing your equipment too right? Fact is the analysis is to notice trends through the intended life of the lubricant and hopefully reduce wear. At $30 for the oil a $75 analysis does not make a lot of sense.

Screw compressors with $4000 worth of food grade lubricant yes but $50-100 lubricants I am thinking not so much. Your mileage may vary though.

As 78w72 said, the analysis is about $40. If you really do care how your oil package is treating your engine then it shouldn't even be a question of cost. Especially when a well built street strip engine is costing upwards of $15,000 or more to build these days. $40 is chump change. Actually I found them to save me money in the long run. Once I found a good lubricant and filter package, and then found how long I could extend change intervals it was a win win.

I don't quite understand the rest of your logic in your post. An oil analysis is just that. Very simple to do and provides a wealth of information.

[cmoc-bob]

Lake Speed has a good video on additives with oil test results, for those that want to learn what additives do - good information.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAGT5inQScE

I can't find it now, but he had another video on "lubricant bench testing" - which I think was posted here. Maybe ProLong shows this.

One of the ball bearings test at room temp I think.

Which, I guess we all know our engines and oil all run at room temperature.

And the disclaimer ProLong shows in the test.

Anyways - if you want to learn something, review the video.

If you want to mix up your own oil, knock yourself out.

BTW - watch the "clear" oil additive. I'm sure some engineer worked overtime on that product.

[P@blo]

My machine shop told me about the stuff. And I am mixing without problems. Maybe I should make a youtube video on it?

I will do a UOA next year and follow up on this thread. I'd rather change my oil then do an OA though. Old school cut open my filters after change. If my junk was wearing out that would be a different story (lawn mowers dirt bikes anything else that has oil gets jazzed up).

Still no shark attacks

[78w72]

Can you address the question as to WHY you feel your engine needs it? What are the engine specs? Do you have a huge cam, dedicated race car or some other valid reason for it? Or just because someone told you about it and or sold it to you? Simple question. Because you havent been attacked by a shark is not really an answer...

My machine shop told me to use a good brand normal oil of the right weight for all the engines they have built for me or for friends, but they are mostly street/light duty strip engines with either stock size cams or very mild lift cam & valve springs... once fully broken in with proper cam break in additives/oil, there is no need to add in anything else, modern oils are fully capable of protecting these types of cams. There is lots of hype about zinc and outdated myths that get blown out of proportion... 99% of cam failures are from crappy metals and machining... or user error on set up and break in procedures, not the oil.

If the lower zinc issue was as big of a problem as some think, myself & others would be wiping cams/lifters on a regular basis and so would every FT cam engine on the road for the last 25+ years.. and there are probably millions of those engines out there still with people that buy the cheapest oil they can find and going beyond suggested change intervals. My Jeep cherokee 4.0 has about the same lift cam as many stock engines of this era... I used the cheapest but good quality oil for 200k+ miles in that, sold it 4 years ago, still see it driving around town today at probably 250-275k.

If adding ridiculous amounts of zddp to your oil makes you sleep better at night, thats your choice, but discrediting or making light of those on here or out there that know a lot about oils or put vids on youtube is pointless, unless of course youre a tribologist or experienced engine builder...