[HWYSTR455]

Did you look at the bearing pics? That's not just a leak.

Bare minimum, line hone, crank checked/turned, rods at least checked (most likely resized), bearings, might get away with honing, new rings, and at least check balance. Add it up and compare.


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[JLMounce]

Those bearings look like what came out of my engine that was 26 years old and a ton of miles. I'd run far away from that shop.

I'm not certain there's anything wrong with your 455 other than the fact that it was trusted to somebody who believes "Pontiac bearings just go bad." I also agree, those serrations are too deep to be used with the viton style seals. The crank needs ground, or it should have a rope seal in place.

I'm with KWYSTR455 on this one, if it's started to kill its bearings this quickly, there's something inherently wrong there. Could be clearance issues, could be the line bore needs touched up. A shade tree mechanic might opt to check the main and rod bearings and roll in new properly sized bearings and send it. You've had this engine in and out so much though, that me personally I'd want some piece of mind.

I also get it though, you've had nothing but frustration with this thing and sometimes you're just over giving it another try.

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Those bearings look like what came out of my engine that was 26 years old and a ton of miles. .....

This is an interesting comment...given the surprises, do you have confidence the bearings were actually replaced? Do you trust the assumed miles/hrs on them?

[78w72]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I agree but I believe this is his fifth go around with the RMS. Obviously something is going on with the seal cavity in this particular block. I'm sure the issue can be addressed. I'm not sure a sixth shop would necessarily be better than the first five

Think he said 3 times, this would be 4th. 2nd try was a rope seal...

But I agree something may be going on with the cavity, you'd think after 3 tries 1 of them would have sealed decent.

[HWYSTR455]

You guys are missing the bigger picture here, this is way more than just a seal issue. Bearings don't go down to copper from a leaking seal. Looking at the bearings who cares about the seal, that's the least of the problems.

Shiny - The original poster is gtorich, JLMounce is talking about one of his previous engines. But the OP did mention that's how they looked when he took it in for a re-ring.

If they didn't do anything about the bearings when they took it apart to do the rings & seal, then they have no biz doing anything on engines in general. If they were that bad and they didn't change them, they are straight up incompetent.

I wonder what the bores and pistons look like.

IMO it's a full rebuild thing at this point. So you might as well go with a new rotating assembly, possibly block too. If you're going to have a block checked/machined, and you suspect issues with the one block, might as well just have the other block machined and avoid any potential issues.



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[gtorich]

Ok, keeping you guys updated, was playing engine builder/destroyer today, took off all the caps, #2 was really hard to pull out, not sure what thats about. To try to answer some questions you guys had.

Mike, the one bearing said clevite, other side of it said NB 2217P..lower .010 ..06/21. These were all new bearing as was the piston rings that the shop supplied, so this is how they looked couple yrs later.
Larry, im assuming the serrations are too deep, does the seal sit where the serrations are missing. ??
Scott, when i took off the oil pan, all was dry in back, that was using the bop i piece oil pan gasket, still had the rubber over the main.
Mike...the rods and pistons are forged but they have been in the motor for many years, the rings are only two yrs old
Paul K... pic of the tray , not sure thats right, but easy to put on moving the tube with the rtv on it.

Just i dont confuse you guys, which im sure i do easily......every time i took the block in to have work done, all parts were new, except crank, rods & pistons

Really not sure about the future of this block, it was lined bored way back, two sleeves put in, bored with a torque plate, idk.............i do have a spare 455 bare block, maybe its time to just try something new.

Rich

[gtorich]

On that one pic by the rear main, looks like one anti-rotational hole isnt all that filled, not to mention all the other trash in there.

Rich

[mgarblik]

Well, there is one heck of allot going on in that engine. Others have posted lots of observations, and I agree with them all. Hard to prioritize what to list here. I guess lets start with the oil leak. From what I see, the serrations on the crank are too coarse for a viton seal. Although the shop knows what RTV is, because they plugged up the oil pump with it, the anti-rotation pockets were not filled to avoid leaks. the #5 main was running particularly hot, ruined the bearing and killed the seal. The viton seal can stand about 400 degrees F. That area was hotter than that.
Now how to proceed? Your looking at a complete overhaul to fix it right. If you have another block, I would tend to start fresh. Not because this block is junk or anything like that. But you said it has 2 sleeves. That compromises the block even if they were installed correctly. It will need to be line honed again for sure. So if it's on it's third line hone, timing chain will probably be loose and need a short chain. Not a big deal, but it's something to remember. The rear seal bore needs to be verified with a dial indicator for runnout because you have had so many issues there.
IMO, you must have the work done by a machine shop that is not filled with Pontiac Haters. A statement that Pontiac's eat bearings is just admitting they are morons. Pontiac built on average 750,000 V-8 engines a year through the 1960's 70's. So they are saying Pontiac sold 15,000,000 engines with bearing problems? Even Chevy and GMC have only managed to build 900,000 bearing destroying V-8 engines in the last 4 years!! So please find a machine shop capable of building a simple, OHV V-8 engine. There is nothing special, weird, failure prone on a Pontiac V-8. Nothing that should take tri-metal bearings down to copper in a few thousand miles.

[unruhjonny]

if you don't know where to go, maybe see if there is a local car club, or better yet Pontiac club;
See what members are suggesting for machinists;
You might have to drive a distance to find a reputable shop - I'd encourage you to not be put off with the possibility of going well out of your way to bring your engine to a good shop.

[JLMounce]

I really agree with mgarblik here. Outside of the issues that the crank wasn't prepped for this seal, or even the very basic instructions followed regarding prepping the anti-rotation holes, there's clearly a pretty serious line-bore issue going on here.

If you paid for one, you either didn't get one, or somebody hacked it up pretty badly.

If you've already got a second 455 block around, I would definitely pull that one out and have it used instead.

[Sirrotica]

Rich, if you're going to pull the crank out, I myself would either check it myself. or have a competent shop check it for out of round journals, as well as possibly bent. Then of course check the main saddle bores for straightness as well as concentricity. With all the different shops, and different hands on the engine has been through the probability of the crank being dropped, or knocked over, is likely pretty high.

If you elect to check it yourself just leave the end main bearings in the block, remove all the others and dial indicate each main bearing journal. Calipers would be used to check each journal for out of round dimensions at a few different points on each journal.

If you do select using your other block you could exchange one problem for another without checking all these dimensions in the substitute block. If the crank is out of whack you'll end up with the same problems.

There is either a problem(s) no one has checked so far, or you have incredibly bad luck with incompetent shops.

That would be my approach, in the end it's your money, and time, so you choose the process.

[Verdoro 68]

I'm not an expert in this by any means, but I agree with the others, there was some poor machine work done on that block. Those bearings look really bad - I see indications of trash in the oil and line bore that's all over the place. I've definitely seen more shallow crank serrations, but I'm not sure they were the primary cause of the leak here.

[Dragncar]

This is the problem with paying other people to build your engine. Learn to do it yourself or find someone very good. This stuff costs too much to fool around. Then you have all the time invested.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by gtorich

Paul K... pic of the tray , not sure thats right, but easy to put on moving the tube with the rtv on it.


Rich

That looks correct, I'm not sure why they put RTV on the one end of the dipstick tube extension

[HWYSTR455]

That's what I was thinking, the crank could be bent....


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[HWYSTR455]

Shipping a block is in the $300-$500 range in the lower 48, roughly. If you're going to ship one, ship the other block.

Butler sells blocks, but the desirable ones are not cheap. But it is an option. If you're purchasing a rotating assembly anyway, it kind of doesn't matter what kind of block you choose, would just stay away from the 557 blocks.

If your main bolts/studs, head bolts/studs are in usable good condition, you could ship that with the block, but it's a nominal cost when you're talking about a new build.

I would still use a new pan, and a new windage tray. Would say valley too, unless you already have a new(er) one of those.


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[gtorich]

In listening to some of these replys, im thinking some of you guys are interested in buying this motor, im not letting it go cheap.....lol

Oh boy, not sure what direction im gonna go in, but me and this 455 block are getting a divorce.............gonna use the other one i bought a long time ago, unless something better wise comes up.

Once again, i cant say thanks enough for the help im getting from you guys............was ready to just throw in the towel, but after having the car 27 yrs now, just cant do it yet...........im trying to go by the motto i cant take my wifes money with me.

Rich

[gtorich]

finally found the paperwork what the shop done, too late to cry now, but you would have thought with the mag the crank, polish the crank, what they actually did to the crank.

Other thing i found a little weird was hone the block, if already at .035 and your using .035 pistons, what comes off with a honing. ???

I did like the smoke machine results, didnt show up on the paper, but they said it was in front of the oil pan................it was the rear, but they were close. lol

Rich

[PAUL K]

Piss poor ring choice ..... You should post their name to save another Pontiac guy the misery of dealing with them.

[gtorich]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Piss poor ring choice ..... You should post their name to save another Pontiac guy the misery of dealing with them.

Paul, i wrestled with that deal, i always feel like just because my motor didnt come out right, doesnt mean someone else will have the same issue.

Funny Wade at BOP has his heads done there.

Advanced engine concepts................Green Lake , Wisc