[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by SD455DJ

Mike, this car is a 12C build date

Dennis would it be too much trouble to check the frame stamping on this car ?
Driver side , outer rail , just behind the axle hump.

We are guesstimating that 7. 16 is the date code for this frame.
Need comparison.
04C Fremont 71 GTO 455HO Hdtp

[SD455DJ]

BVZ, I'll be where the GT-37 is tomorrow, so I can crawl under it to get a picture of the frame. Mike R. (the PO) cleaned the area off the area where the frame numbers are and painted it black, so should be able to get good pictures of it. I thought I had a picture of them, but can't find it now.

Dennis

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Trim tag too , if its not already posted in this thread.
Fellow has a car that he is trying to scrutinize that was handed down to him.

[SD455DJ]

BVZ, Here's the trim tag for you.

Dennis

[SD455DJ]

We’re cautiously hopeful the GT-37 will be going in for minor body work and paint in early November. Dan and I moved it from its hiding spot to right in front of the garage door so it can be driven 2 miles down the road to the shop. The 455HO started right up with a little fuel in the bowl, 5 gallons in the tank (it was completely empty), and a new battery. It’s been a long 4-year wait for this finally to happen.

Dennis

[79 Phoenix]

That's exciting!

[SD455DJ]

We were able to deliver the GT-37 to the painter today while the weather was still decent. Tim (the painter) just finished his ’71 Chevy C20 4x4 Cheyenne restoration (it’s for sale…$$$ not for the faint of heart) that is drop-dead gorgeous! We aren’t coming close to that level of finish. Tim retired from working for Scott Tiemann’s Supercar Specialties a few years ago, so he knows a thing or two about laying down nice paint. We’re going to help with the grunt work of removing the front end, stripping the old paint, taping and masking, etc. while he’s out deer hunting starting next week. Getting excited for next spring now.

Dennis

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I had always hoped to stumble on one of these chrome bumper 455 HO cars back in the day --- at maybe a bargain type price.
Never found one locally at any price.

[SD455DJ]

BVZ - The chrome noses are pretty far and few between for sure. Only 122 455HO's (74 manual/48 auto) made that way in T-37 hdtp. & coupe, Lemans, and Lemans Sport (including any T-41 nose cars). The L75 455 only saw 171 chrome noses built. L78 400 4-bbls saw 1871 made.

Dennis

[Judge273]

They are pretty and quick!

[HWYSTR455]

So out of curiosity, how much does a 70 GTO endura bumper weigh?


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[Baron Von Zeppelin]

If someone has the AMA sheets from a PHS the overall weight difference between a lemans sport and GTO could be figured.
70 enduras are heavy bastards with the brackets still attached.
These 455HO chrome nose cars are 1971 models.


Don't think they made any in 72 ,,,, 72 455HO required/included RamAir . iirc
So they had to have T41 endura/T42 hood in 72 to get 455HO with Non-GTO cars.
The Boss had a 72 Convertible 455HO 4spd Lemans
1 of a handful or less

[north]

For what it’s worth I weighed the endurance (w/o hideaways) front bumper assembly on a 69 GTO versus the chrome 69 LeMans version and they weighed exactly the same. The culprit on the LeMans front end was the upper and lower horizontal brackets, heavy buggers.

I’d think the 70 Endurance would be heavier than the 68-69 endura and the 71-72 would be the lightest of the bunch since the use so much less rubber material.

[68bird400HO]

I think the 71 GTO hoods are way heavier than the plain lemans hoods as well. Between these hoods and the endura, I think that is where most of the weight difference is.

[SD455DJ]

I looked at the 1970 and 1971 AMA Weights for the A-bodies, and the difference between a comparably equipped Lemans Sport to the GTO (I used 1971 optional equipment weights as most weren’t listed in the 1970 table):

1970
Lemans Sport 2-dr Hdtp Coupe 3456 lbs. (base inline 6?)
400 4-bbl. V8 279 lbs.
HD 3-spd 29 lbs.
Dual Exhaust 29 lbs.
V8 Coolant add 13 lbs.
Total: 3806 lbs. (25 lbs. heavier than the GTO???!!!)
GTO 2-dr Hdtp Coupe 3781 lbs. (no options)

1971
Lemans Sport 2-dr Hdtp Coupe 3360 lbs. (base inline 6?)
400 4-bbl. V8 279 lbs.
HD 3-spd 29 lbs.
Dual Exhaust 29 lbs.
V8 Coolant add 13 lbs.
Total: 3710 lbs. (117 lbs. heavier than the GTO???!!!)
GTO 2-dr Hdtp Coupe 3593 lbs. (no options)

So, the AMA weight tables don't seem to be a good way to compare…unless the Lemans Sport wasn’t standard with the 250 inline 6…?

Dennis

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Sports got a V8 350 2bbl as standard .
Subtract 279 approx from those math totals.

1970
3527 Lemans vs 3781 GTO = approx 254 lbs ?

1971
3431 Lemans vs 3593 GTO = approx 162 lbs

Likely add a little more equal weight to both 71's for the 455 and big manifolds

Never realized a 71 GTO was that much lighter than 70 GTO = 190 lbs approx between them
The Lemans weight variation between 70 and 71 seems peculiar also = 90 lbs approx between them.
Maybe not the best results here. lol idunno

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Every 100 pounds is supposedly 10 horsepower and one tenth second in quarter mile.
If working on the same car by reducing weight from it -or- adding weight to it.

The engine stays the same , it's just a factored parameter against the weight.

[SD455DJ]

Yeah, I really don't trust those weight tables, especially when you deduct the 400 4-bbl weight of 279 lbs., which seems too much for both years....3527 lbs. for a stripper 350 2-bbl. Lemans Sport...I don't think so...and 3431 lbs. for a '71...a bit too light. That's 1st gen Firebird 400 territory. Dan's 455HO T-37 weighs 3500 lbs. (+/-) with 1/2 tank of fuel, no spare, no driver. My '70 Tempest weighs 3550 lbs. with 1/2 tank fuel, no spare, no driver. My '70 RAIV Judge weighs 3800 lbs. with 1/2 tank, no spare, no driver. These are all TH400 equipped. The Tempest weighs 3650 lbs. with a full tank and spare in the trunk, or 250 lbs. lighter than the Judge. These are all weights from NHRA track scales.

Dennis

[HWYSTR455]

Dennis, does that 3800 weight for the 70 Judge have AC?

I've been trying to guess-timate weight of my tribute car, which has a but-load of stuff hung on it, at least 475 lbs, as close as I can guess.

I'm going to corner weigh it here soon, but I'm thinking in the 4300-4500 range.

Add-ons are roughly these:

4 boxes of 36sqft Dynamat - 85 lbs
Billet Specialties Tru-Trac serp kit w AC - 66.5
Twin elec fans + shroud -26
Vintage Air Sure Fit - 65
Speakers - 12
Amps and associated wire - 16
Rear deck MDF enclosures - 26
4L80e w 3 disc +anti-balloon plate - 58
Trans and PS coolers, lines, fittings, reservoir, and fluid - 21
Tubular control arms and braces - 18 lbs (over stock)

Then there's a 7+1 qt pan on it, a shallow alum pan on trans, and a ton of stuff I can't even think of off the top of my head, that's just the list I've been working on and using shipping weights.

I go in 2 weeks for the corner weighing, will know for sure then. Been struggling calculating coil spring rates to dial in the suspension. Driving me nuts, have swapped more springs in & out than I care to mention...


.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

His Judge would be non-AC as an original Ram IV car.

The 70 I'm going to build should be a fatty.
Almost every option a 70 could have on it.
AC cruise pwr windows pwr seat 8track on and on