[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by johns

No-I've got a gas heater. I don't have a/c either but I use fans and dehumidifiers. It works good enough for me except on those really hot days. Best of luck!

Was asking just for reference. I have never been in a shop with radiant floor heating. Just wondering what it is like.

I think for Texas since we have cheap NG I will stay with gas heat. Easy and cheap are always the best option. KISS method.

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by dataway

My biggest advice would be to try to honestly assess how you will use the shop. Is it a showroom for hanging out with friends, is it a working shop, is it a use case where you can just say nah, don't feel like working when it's hot or cold, or do you HAVE to get work done in it in any weather.

How tall do you really NEED it. Bear in mind you have to heat, cool and light that extra volume.

What kind of interior wall surface do you need? Plywood is VERY convenient for mounting things. Do you really need a glossy smooth floor, it's a substantial cost.

A biggie is don't imagine building a Jay Leno garage on a pole barn budget. In the long run you'd be better served by floor space than fine finishes.

Don't skimp on the slab, minimum 6" 3,000 psi fiber concrete.

In a high wind location keep the height as low as possible.

As others have said, make sure you have a proper ground grade down and away from the building. Install gutters.

Situations will vary, but if possible, wire outlets and lights yourself, it's not rocket science and it's VERY expensive to pay for this.

If you plan to heat or cool, spring for the insulation.

Even running LED lights for any substantial hours a day can get expensive, in my case about 1 kw per hour. My advice here differs from most. Light the shop well enough to see like a normal room, in most cases where you need extra light, underhood, in fender wells, under the car etc. no amount of overhead light will do anyway, build a bad-ass light panel and use that instead of lighting the whole shop at operating room levels. My shop is 40x60x12 and if you forget and leave the lights on for a couple of days you WILL notice it on your bill. All my benches have their own "undershelf" lighting (they are pallet racks, so the light for a bench is attached to the underside of the shelf above). I can go in at night and just turn on the bench lights for detail work without having to light the whole shop.

Again, be very honest with yourself about what you NEED compared to what you WANT.

I thought I was going to have a cool showroom/garage shop, turns out I have to work on filthy tractors, skid steer, excavator, mowers, wood projects, welding projects etc. I still love it, but it's not a museum.

To be honest, my favorite kind of shop ... a 50 year old barn with a good floor, lots of character, every square inch of wood hanging with parts and memorabilia, and if you want to change something you get out a saw and hammer.

Good post thanks.

You have some good points. I have caught myself drifting off into
dreamy shop land like Hoovies garage built.
But I wake up and slap myself and then get real.
Half his size and less money than him.
Shop will be a working shop with no fancy do dads on the walls
and restored gas pumps and such. Maybe some fancy tools and boxes are my
choice over the other stuff as its just fluff. serves no working purpose.
Maybe later when the work is done but I know that will probably never happen.
Body work and paint are messy. The floor will be coated but most everything else will be minimalist except for tools, boxes and benches to work on or out of.
Will have a nice lean-to area outside to keep it shaded while sanding on bodies and outside work in general to help keep the shop clean.
big 12X 48 in front on the not too sunny side of the shop.

[skunkwerks]

Here is the start of the upgrades for the shop and house.
Going from a 200A service to a 320/400A service.

I have installed a 200A disconnect for the shop on the right side of the 320A new
meter base and a 200A breaker panel on the left with a 60A breaker and
generator interlock bar and a 60A plug in the bottom of the panel to
power the house during outages.
Been wanting to do this for a while. Just have to pour the concrete pad for the generator and install.

Had to dig 85 feet of trench for the new 3" pipe 28" down mostly by hand
as I have a ton of sprinklers and pipes in the way.
I have underground utilities in my area.
Utility provider still needs to pull the new 500MCM wire
and hook up the new service. Sometime this week or next.
also an expansion joint between the meter base and ground pipe per code.
Very needed upgrade for what I am doing.

[skunkwerks]

One more time on the pics.

[Ogre]

... if my experience can be of any assistance.

Since I am just south of you in CenTex, our weather (and weather consideration) is similar. My experience is in a moderate neighborhood, with a tight HOA, and several restrictions on design.

A couple of pics below show my start and finish. LOL Finish? It seems they are never finished, maybe useable, but never finished. There is always that "just one more thing". Finish pic is before the driveway was poured

Ogre

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by Ogre

... if my experience can be of any assistance.

Since I am just south of you in CenTex, our weather (and weather consideration) is similar. My experience is in a moderate neighborhood, with a tight HOA, and several restrictions on design.

A couple of pics below show my start and finish. LOL Finish? It seems they are never finished, maybe useable, but never finished. There is always that "just one more thing". Finish pic is before the driveway was poured

Ogre

Ah yes you are close to my old house when I lived in Leander. Yes HOA's everywhere.
Is that why you put stone on the front of your shop (HOA reg) or you just did it to match the house?
Very nice looking. I like the red roof and trim.
What size is it? Just to get a perspective.
You building the shop yourself?

[Ogre]

Quick reply ... gotta get going on some tree trimming. I'll send some answers later. One response: No metal buildings allowed by HOA restrictions, so rock to match my house, and siding on not so visible sides.

Actually the small village of Briarcliff, TX. Willie Nelson country.

Ogre

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by skunkwerks

Ah yes you are close to my old house when I lived in Leander. Yes HOA's everywhere.
Is that why you put stone on the front of your shop (HOA reg) or you just did it to match the house?
Very nice looking. I like the red roof and trim.
What size is it? Just to get a perspective.
You building the shop yourself?

From your first post, you are WAAAY better organized than when I started my project garage in 2011. Considerably smaller than yours ... it's 37' X 25', 10' walls, w/4x12 pitch. Don't want to get in the weeds on my start-stop-start-stop process. HOA, LCRA for septic, electrical work, water, etc. It was a longer project than I anticipated or planned.

Decided to buy from Mueller, www.muellerinc.com. They are a big metal supplier in CenTex. They helped with design and recommended a good builder who had built several.

I have too many pics of the whole process, and the wife and I did the floor sealing and paint and raising an internal wall to separate the open garage from my smaller portion for a workshop.

As I said before, don't know if my experience will help, but always glad to help out a Pontiac aficionado.

Ogre

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by Ogre

From your first post, you are WAAAY better organized than when I started my project garage in 2011. Considerably smaller than yours ... it's 37' X 25', 10' walls, w/4x12 pitch. Don't want to get in the weeds on my start-stop-start-stop process. HOA, LCRA for septic, electrical work, water, etc. It was a longer project than I anticipated or planned.

Decided to buy from Mueller, www.muellerinc.com. They are a big metal supplier in CenTex. They helped with design and recommended a good builder who had built several.

I have too many pics of the whole process, and the wife and I did the floor sealing and paint and raising an internal wall to separate the open garage from my smaller portion for a workshop.

As I said before, don't know if my experience will help, but always glad to help out a Pontiac aficionado.

Ogre

Thanks for the update.
Looks good and you have spent some money and time on it.
Yes, the LCRA is a hurdle in that area.
Please could you post some pics of the building frame and construction if you
have the time. Always interesting to see what others are doing.
I am trying to be organized on this build. So many things to consider.
Thanks for the info on Mueller. I will check them out.
Your building is not that small. almost 30X40. That is a good size.
You have put a ton of work into it to make it look like a house. Not cheap or easy.
The 4:12 pitch makes it look more residential than shop like.
That is what I am going for. Most of the shops in my area are 2:12 pitched.
No stone on the front of mine for now.
I am leaning toward a standing seam metal roof for a cleaner look and hidden fasteners for Texas crazy weather resistance.

Russ

[Ogre]

Hey Russ, I'll be glad to help where I can, but I'm quite sure I will have to admit my neophyte mistakes (no building experience) for others to jeer at! I'll just take my lumps.

My first mistake was not getting my builder in early enough. Little things when pouring the slab ... where will water enter, where will Elec enter for your main breaker panel, slab openings for the door(s), and especially where are the main structures to be welded down. Metal footings (if you do metal) need to be exact.

A few pics of the early process ... started in March 2011, ended with Septic tank Mar 2012. Also forgot the rock ledge and had to redo that modification.

Many more later,
Pat
AKA "Ogre"

Whoops ... last pic below counting the 2' tall horizontal wall purlin structure, you can see the peak of the garage is almost 14' high. Either of the vehicles ('72 Lemans) will sit on my lift full up without contacting the celling inside.

[1965gp]

I live in Houston, so I have some of the same concerns. At the builders suggestion we put roll up doors on the sides of the shop. On hot days this really creates a lot of air flow, adds a lot of versatility (drive in locations ) and did not cost that much more than windows.

LED lighting is cheap- ended up getting mine from Lowe’s off the shelf.

My HOA made me match the original height of my garage and I’m glad they did. It has a much more ‘open’ feel to it and allows the light to do its job.

I do wish I had replaced the single garage doors with double- makes it hard to maneuver the bigger cars.

Here are some pics. The patio area has since been enclosed but gives you an idea of the roll up doors.

[Ogre]

Wow! Yours looks like a display case ... mine looks like a grubby old workspace. Seriously, I think I will avoid any current day pics, but I do like your setup.

Other than your humidity, my CenTex weather is very close. It was recommended by my electrical guy to put a small A/C in that would cool it little on the really hot days, but $$$ got in my way to finish it up and use it. LOL

Couple of more progress pics:
1) windows & paneling
2) couple of neighbors dropped by to look
3) exterior wall done ... roofing started
4) inside toward where my workshop will be
5) roll up garage door ... makes opening at 8' height

Moving along,
Ogre

[1965gp]

I really wanted AC, but decided on a window unit for the apartment/work space upstairs. I can barely afford the two AC units on the house…. Not ready to add a third!

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by Ogre

Hey Russ, I'll be glad to help where I can, but I'm quite sure I will have to admit my neophyte mistakes (no building experience) for others to jeer at! I'll just take my lumps.

My first mistake was not getting my builder in early enough. Little things when pouring the slab ... where will water enter, where will Elec enter for your main breaker panel, slab openings for the door(s), and especially where are the main structures to be welded down. Metal footings (if you do metal) need to be exact.

A few pics of the early process ... started in March 2011, ended with Septic tank Mar 2012. Also forgot the rock ledge and had to redo that modification.

Many more later,
Pat
AKA "Ogre"

Whoops ... last pic below counting the 2' tall horizontal wall purlin structure, you can see the peak of the garage is almost 14' high. Either of the vehicles ('72 Lemans) will sit on my lift full up without contacting the celling inside.

Thanks for the pictures Pat
Just wanted to see structurally how the Mueller building is set-up.
I will post some of the building on my shop.
Concrete is done and I am just waiting another week to be at the 29 day cure so I can start building mine.
I have decided to build it from scratch and see how little I can spend.
I have purchased most of the skeleton and garage doors and have not spent
10K yet. The sheeting will run about 3-4K depending.
Going for the cheapest Taj Mahal I can build.
I am going to use steel prefab trusses with a 4/12 pitch roof to look more residential and an 6" square I beam post set-up.
We will see how this comes together.
Kind of winging it but it will be 100% weld up. No one seems to build this way anymore.

[skunkwerks]

Originally Posted by 1965gp

I live in Houston, so I have some of the same concerns. At the builders suggestion we put roll up doors on the sides of the shop. On hot days this really creates a lot of air flow, adds a lot of versatility (drive in locations ) and did not cost that much more than windows.

LED lighting is cheap- ended up getting mine from Lowe’s off the shelf.

My HOA made me match the original height of my garage and I’m glad they did. It has a much more ‘open’ feel to it and allows the light to do its job.

I do wish I had replaced the single garage doors with double- makes it hard to maneuver the bigger cars.

Here are some pics. The patio area has since been enclosed but gives you an idea of the roll up doors.

Looks like your house is built on top of your 4 car garage and your shop was extended off the left side correct.
Very crafty set-up. Nice plan for an addition.
Looks like it was an all wood construction.
How tall are the side walls on the shop?

Thanks for the pics.

[skunkwerks]

Pics of the concrete shop. rest of the driveway was poured the next day.
More to come in the next few weeks.

[sdbob]

My father use to say,'you are only going to do it once'. Mine is 30 x60 with 10ft ceilings. Lifts were not popular when I built it. Wish I had the built higher ceiling. Mine is concrete block up 48" then 2x6 studs. Then I built a 2nd floor, with Gambrel roof. For my trains. I planned on using heated floor. I had the designs for the PET tubing from Zurn,insulation in floor etc. Then I talked to guys who had it some were positive. Some said just use gas
forced air. So I changed. Floor will be 5 " thick minimum4000 psi with fiber. I have steel rods that I'm not going to use. I've done all the building myself. Oh the upstairs floor is 2x4 30 ft trusses on 16" centers 24 " high. No spongeeness.

[GOAT8U2]

Nice builds
1965hp, you're also a GTO and GN guy, sweet and sour at times right? LOL

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by skunkwerks

Thanks for the pictures Pat

Anytime ... hope some of the MANY pics will help.

I have decided to build it from scratch and see how little I can spend.

Considered it after meeting with the Mueller folks, but my weak TIG skills were not going to hack it. It was interesting to see my builder lay the I-beams down and cut and weld them (pic1). Then that seemingly homemade lift raise them to the welding spot.(pic2)

Going for the cheapest Taj Mahal I can build.

LOL good luck

Kind of winging it but it will be 100% weld up. No one seems to build this way anymore.

That's the way my guy did it ... including the 2-4-8-10 foot purlin wall horizontal studs(?). All welded together.

Ogre

[1965gp]

On mine that is actually just an apartment above the garage - the house is next to it. It does look like two houses.

The walls in the shop addition are about 18’ tall I think? The HOA made me match the height of the original structure but in the end I’m glad they did.

The GN is a very different car than the GTO’s we are used to. Quiet, tame and then explodes with power! My friend got that car brand new when he turned 16. I can’t imagine that! I bought it from him about 8 years ago before the prices went crazy on these.