[68bird400HO]

Ahh...my brain is always on 71

[dataway]

I think they changed numerous things between 68 and 72 ... in 68 tie-rod adjusters I'm pretty sure were zinc plated ... other wise you wouldn't be able to turn them after a couple of years. And the cross shaft nuts were zinc plated in 68.

That's a sweet setup you have there ... I'm going to send you some stuff that needs treatment

[Cardo]

Subscribing. I stumbled across this thread.... I am getting ready to do my 65 Lemans resto, and was trying to figure out how to do all of my bolts. My car is from Florida, so things are not really pitted up just rusty. Excellent info, I appreciate everyone sharing here. I may have questions later though!

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Bentwheelbob

...After the coating I saturated them with Boeshield in a foil pan and keep them "wet" for 24 hours before wiping down.

I am looking for a rust-inhibiting oil/wax to use on phosphated parts and ran across this thread. I will search for this Boeshield, thanks for posting!

How is it holding up?

Revisiting this topic... maybe 10 yrs ago I used this product to blacken a bunch of fasteners. I had purchased a kit that included an oil, but it's now lost in space.



I don't know the chemistry but the bluing worked great, was done cold, and I was happy with it.

Unfortunately, it appears the company is gone so I can't buy the same oil. Here is a blurb with a link to a dead site... . Appears the company is gone or changed their web site.

http://www.ktgunsmith.com/rugged_gun_blue.htm

Since there are commercial specs for "phos & oil" finishes that include "wax", I figured there must be a source for something. The Boeshield sounds like a winner but I'm interested in other options.

Mike

[turbo69bird]

Boeshield is great stuff but check out zep comercial floor wax. People use it on RVs. I dunked a couple of raw steel blasted bolts in it and let them sit out to see if they’d rust and going on 2 years w no rust can’t even tell they’ve been dipped in anything.

Many people use it on RV exteriors for a shine like wax but I dint see any wax shine on the bolts. They just got slightly darker. I tested it for use on my boat hardware that’s rusting , that I used to use boeshield on but sometimes the boeshield would turn white over time maybe the salt water .


This this is the stuff I used.

https://www.amazon.com/zep-commercia.../dp/b001b1a9gm

[Shiny]

Thanks for the suggestion! I have seen others talk about that Zep product as an alternative to car wax on their RV. Some of them claim it holds a shine for over 2 years so must be a tough coating. Maybe more like an acrylic coating than an oil or wax?

[dataway]

I've become quite a fan of Zep products ... work great and are usually a fraction of the cost of other products.

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

So I am starting to get myself a little confused....

So Parkerizing is the same as black oxide for a black finish.

Is phosphate magnesium also the same? The images I saw in the video above do not look like black oxide to me. more of a gray slate color?
they look close to the correct color for our hood hinges & maybe they are?

Palmetto sells both Manganese & Zinc.

the whole thing seemed simple to me until I dug a little too deep


Here's an image from 5 minutes into the video.

If you want to see some gray phosphate and black (magnesium) phosphated bolts I did a couple of years ago with the Palmetto solutions, you can stop by and see for yourself since I live just outside of Green Bay. I will also show you my setup that I made with a cheapo temperature controller, hotplate and some pvc tubing that holds the sensor in the solution. If you pm me with your email address, I'll send you a write up on it.

Old Joe

[Shiny]

After getting your responses and a healthy dose of online searching, I'd say a "best phosphating oil" thread would make "best cam" and "best motor oil" threads seem tame.

I decided to use WD-40 Specialist Rust Inhibitor (Link to Datasheet) on phosphated parts.

After seeing Cortec's vapor inhibitor technology and line of products I was impressed. I asked one of their sales reps for a recommendation for phosphated steel and he promoted their VpCI-369 (oily/thin) and VpCI-368 (waxy/thick) products, both containing proprietary VCI inhibitors. He suggested buying through "The Rust Store" (Link to The Rust Store), which carries a lot of reputable products.

Cortec backs up their products with this "motherload" of credible test results: Link to Cortec Competitive Test Report Library

I also believe that WD-40 Specialist Rust Inhibitor is actually Cortec 369. So these were on my short list.

I then stumbled across this online summary of a gun hobbyist's corrosion test. It was done well enought to clearly differentiate the performance of a VERY LARGE number of products: https://dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667

Here's an image showing the range of performance in that summary:



In this test, the WD-40 Specialist Rust Inhibitor finished in the top 3, beating out Boeshield T9, CRC 3-36, CorrosionX, and many other good products.

I was going to order Cortec 369 but when I found the WD-40 product in stock at Home Depot for about $10, I was done.

There are obviously lots of products available to us that would work well as a phosphating oil but this WD-40 Specialist Corrosion Inhibitor seems a good value to me.

Mike

[gtobird]

Originally Posted by dataway

The bead blasting is a pain. The heads not so bad, but the threads are a pain. I wonder if a abrasive tumbler would work.

A few notes on this. Again, I used the Palmetto zinc phosphate and manganese phosphate. I tried a variety of things to prep bolts before phosphating and I also found the beadblasting to be tedious.

First off, I tried soaking the bolts in Evaporust for a few days. It did dissolve the rust, but they didn't phosphate properly. I then tried tumbling. Unfortunately, the tumbling still leaves microscopic particles of rust on the fasteners, so again, they didn't phosphate properly.

Yes, beadblasting did the trick. I found several ways to hold the bolts. I went to a Goodwill store and bought a deep fry basket for $3. It worked fine and is still holding together. The only problem is the high pressure air causes the fasteners to bounce around in the basket, so it takes a while before you get each and every fastener clean. I found that I had to examine them closely and then touch up some of them. I held them with a vice grip by the head (If it was a bolt), or screwed them into a nut and held the nut with a vice grip to get them as clean as I wanted. Later, I discouvered a much easier way to hold them firmly in mass. I went into my scrap wood pile and found some oak 2" x 1/4" trim pieces and cut them into lengths of about 18". I then drilled holes in them just small enough that the bolts would have to be snugly screwed into the wood. It worked great for me. You can screw them all the way in, hit the threads on one side of the wood and the head on the other. You them back them out a bit and hit the threads that were hidden by the wood.

With respect to using a sealer, I documented a set of test coupons that I had phosphated and coated with various things. After coating and sealing, I soaked them in a salt bath and compared them. I found that soaking them in Boe Shield and then coating them with RIG grease (used on firearms) gave me the best protection. You can buy RIG grease online or at Cabellas.

Old Joe

[dataway]

Same here ... only method I've found to properly prepare them is bead blasting.

[Shiny]

I'm cleaning up a bunch of fasteners again so revisiting.

The options for inexpensive cold blackening products feels limited.

20 years ago, I used a selenium-based product that looked great... very black and no graininess. But no longer available. I suspect the coating was quite thin. Birchwood Casey sells similar products and I used one last year when I was on this thread looking for corrosion-inhibiting oils to put on as a "sealer".

This time, I'm going to try a Birchwood product that is also selenium/copper based but sold as a concentrate on Amazon so seems like a good value compared to the small bottles of stuff like Perma Blue and Super Blue... but maybe they are the same ???

Here's the product page: Link to "Presto Black STEEL PC9".



Anyone else used this recently?

I don't think it is as durable as a "hot" process like Parkerizing but I need simple and inexpensive.

Mike

[rwfisher]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I'm cleaning up a bunch of fasteners again so revisiting.

The options for inexpensive cold blackening products feels limited.

20 years ago, I used a selenium-based product that looked great... very black and no graininess. But no longer available. I suspect the coating was quite thin. Birchwood Casey sells similar products and I used one last year when I was on this thread looking for corrosion-inhibiting oils to put on as a "sealer".

This time, I'm going to try a Birchwood product that is also selenium/copper based but sold as a concentrate on Amazon so seems like a good value compared to the small bottles of stuff like Perma Blue and Super Blue... but maybe they are the same ???

Here's the product page: Link to "Presto Black STEEL PC9".



Anyone else used this recently?

I don't think it is as durable as a "hot" process like Parkerizing but I need simple and inexpensive.

Mike

Caswell has kits that are pretty easy to use and the quality has been proven many times over. I find blasting, cleaning well and the soaking in used oil after they’re done to insure best finish/longevity..

[Rachelsdad]

For my underhood bolts, I was going to either coat them with Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black (using the matching primer) or have them powder coated. What holds up better and looks more correct for '63 and '56?

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by rwfisher

Caswell has kits that are pretty easy to use and the quality has been proven many times over. I find blasting, cleaning well and the soaking in used oil after they’re done to insure best finish/longevity..

Thanks!

Agree they are a great option. I just wanted the lowest cost for a small pile of bolts. MSDS suggests both the Presto Black and the Caswell are similar chemistry (cold process selenium/copper). The "free" shipping with Amazon ends up being the same net as Caswell plus shipping. The cost savings for me was buying 8 oz of concentrate instead of 16.

That's just me and my wallet arguing again...

Mike

[Shiny]

Originally Posted by Rachelsdad

For my underhood bolts, I was going to either coat them with Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black (using the matching primer) or have them powder coated. What holds up better and looks more correct for '63 and '56?

I'm clueless about that vintage, but might help others if you share more detail about which fasteners you want to refinish.

Assuming they were originally black, Pontiac probably spec'd a black oxide finish of some type. If they weren't black, they were likely plated with zinc, possibly chromated.

If you paint or powder-coat them, they would look good but the coating thickness might cause issues with assembly... either binding or chipping. If they also are used as ground paths, there's a chance they could add resistance.

Assuming you want black, these "cold" temperature black oxide solutions are very easy to use. If you want closer to original, you might need to use the "hot" processes which are more involved but might hold up longer.

[Nobuddy]

Couple of minor points -
1) Parkerizing is not the same as black oxide. See post #70 for parkerizing. It is very durable and corrosion resistant.
2) Actual black oxide is a nasty process and not easily done at home. It is cheap and easy as an industrial process and has some durability and corrosion resistance.
3) Blackening is not the same as black oxide. It does give useful surface colors and is easily done at home. Not very durable or corrosion resistant.
4) Rust blacking or bluing is a traditional firearm finish and while not difficult it is time consuming. This involves uses an acidic solution to do very mild controlled corrosion and then converting those oxides in boiling water. Then carding off some residue. Repeat for darker coating. This is the only home process I know of that does a black oxide conversion that becomes part of the steel.

[Rachelsdad]

Originally Posted by Shiny

I'm clueless about that vintage, but might help others if you share more detail about which fasteners you want to refinish.

Indeed, a picture is worth a thousand words.

The attached are from a survivor car (present at the 2024 POCI convention in Springdale, AR). These are the exact bolts to which I'm referring. Clearly, these are somewhat worn and weathered, but hopefully, we can get an idea of what they really should be (and the washers, as well).

[Shiny]

I'm good with the Presto-Black. Seems a good value compared to other options and tolerated my lazy prep.

I soaked all these for about 3 days in Evapo-Rust then quickly scrubbed each with a scotchbrite as I rinsed. I put them back in dilute Evapo-Rust to avoid flash rust until I could get to the blackening. Today I rinsed them all and dumped the whole pile in a jar filled with the Presto-Black diluted about 7:1.

No wire brush, no blasting, no detergent, no acid, no drano.

After blotting them off, I put them back in the jar and sprayed with WD-40 Corrosion Inhibitor.

They are black, smooth, and without much residue.

I can see some milky liquid that is probably water. Hopefully the oil displaced it and it will go away when the water evaporates. The orange glints are reflections... no hint of rust on any of them.

[Shiny]

No milky residue today, was just water.

This stuff works great with minimal prep and the finish is very uniformly black!

Mikey likes it.