[Tom Pugh]

I'm considering taking my '73 455 to Butler for a rebuild. It is stock bottom end with a roller cam and rockers, Edelbrock rpm, intake, Avenger 770 carb and larger valves in the 4X heads. I would like to rebuild it with a forged rods and pistons, keep the stock crank and likely use a set of aluminum heads. The is a street only build, so something in the 450-500hp range with the focus on good off idle torque and midrange is my goal. This is going into a '67 GTO, backed by a Turbo 400 and 12 bolt with 3.31 gears Any guys here have a feel for Butler's pricing structure and leadtimes? Suggestions?

[nas t eh]

Butler is a great place to take a Pontiac to, but they are busy and not cheap. Best ask them about cost and lead time.

[scott70]

I thought they only sold kits or you could buy an engine ready to go?

[steve25]

The above seems to be by correct.

Butler will not build your motor, they will only sell you a built one or kits to build one on one level or another.

[Tom Pugh]

Originally Posted by steve25

The above seems to be by correct.

Butler will not build your motor, they will only sell you a built one or kits to build one on one level or another.

sounds like I am barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps I should just look at them for an engine kit and find a competent Pontiac builder near me. I live in NC but would travel for the right guy.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Tom Pugh

sounds like I am barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps I should just look at them for an engine kit and find a competent Pontiac builder near me. I live in NC but would travel for the right guy.

Or find a good builder and see if he can supply the parts. It's possible you could end up with a better selection of components.

[carcrazy]

Originally Posted by Tom Pugh

sounds like I am barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps I should just look at them for an engine kit and find a competent Pontiac builder near me. I live in NC but would travel for the right guy.

There are a few good Pontiac builders in NC. If you are anywhere near Raleigh, I just had Boyettes build one for me. Over the years he's built several engines for me and I've never had an issue.

[Half-Inch Stud]

About 23 years ago here, i tried to claim i could build decent 455s for about $600 or so. That was when TRW forged slugs were < $230 from PAW. Forgot what the gasket and bearing kit was! but cheap it was.

Nowadays, impossible to be under $1200 on a few parts. The cores are so bad that easily over several $k for the stupid parts.

[mgarblik]

The cost of building any old muscle car engine has skyrocketed in the last 5 years. Other professional builders can certainly chime in and post their experiences. Building 12-16 engines a year with my students each year, I have seen the cost of parts double across the board on average. Even the lowly SBC engines have gone up that much. In 2020, we made the blanket statement that we could build a 400 HP SBC for less than $1000.00. That was true and backed up by dyno results. Now that engine cost about $2000.00. (That's parts only, no labor). Pontiacs, Olds, Mopar, Ford BB cost about 50% more than SBC, SBF. The much loved LS engines cost about 50% more than a SBC, SBF as well. That is our current experience.
Butler knows how to build a quality Pontiac engine and have built hundreds of not a thousand of them. But if they are no longer doing customer engines, there are many other quality builders out there, some on this forum. As I have said many times, a Pontiac V-8 is a simple engine, with just a few different, specific little items that need specific attention. A shop with good equipment and people who have proper engine machining skills can certainly build a proper one. Allot comes down to attitude. If the shop starts out by bad mouthing your choice to build a Pontiac, only builds one every 5 years, looks down their nose at your project, acts like they are going to do you a favor, run like hell and find another shop.

[tom s]

A "GOOD" engine builder can pretty much build any brand engine.One of the best builder I had was Joe Sherman who was a famous SBC builder.My current builder did machine work for Joe and he builds virtually ANY engine at his shop.I will see 12 cyc exotic engines to DSL engines.He is doing quite a few Pontiacs these days.He only takes in one engine at a time!The engine in my 62 GP was done by a BBC boat racer.FWIW,Tom

[PontiacHO]

Originally Posted by carcrazy

There are a few good Pontiac builders in NC. If you are anywhere near Raleigh, I just had Boyettes build one for me. Over the years he's built several engines for me and I've never had an issue.

Agree. Boyettes did my heads last year. They had a shop full of work with many different engines - GM, Ford, and Mopar. Reasonable prices (in my opinion), quick turnaround, and offer top shelf customer service. I’m sure they must have been approached to sell their location in downtown Raleigh but still a viable business in the same location for 80 years.

[J GLASGO]

We do at least 6 engines a year. All muscle cars, various manufacturers. I am shocked at machine shop and parts pricing. Goes up every time.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Local shop says to figure about $450 to bore 030, finish hone to match pistons and deck the block.

I asked if the deck can just be a surface prep for headgaskets, to keep Compr ratio as is. Think price didn't go down.


Mind younz, i bought the 421 block from the shop(Hemi specialized), as the Crank Grinder the last Pontiac guy there been there since Jim Butler was there in the mid-late 50's. 86 years old and still grinding cranks!

[RA66GTO]

If you are near Mooresville, NC I highly recommend Carolina Crank. Jack has since passed, but the business continues on.

I'm sure pricing has changed since 2018, but for +0.90 bore, clean, cam bearings, Forged Pistons, and freeze plugs we were under $800.

Gaskets, roller cam, main & rod bearings, etc were sourced from Butler.

Heads were sourced from KRE.

I can keep going... all in we were just over $10k for a very nice driver that has nearly 30k miles on it now.

[Tom Pugh]

I live in the suburbs of Raleigh and am familiar with Boyettes. Genuine old school machine shop/engine builder. Thanks

[JLMounce]

Just did my 455 last year. I'm across the country, but my all in costs were around 9500.00 just over 7K of that was machine shop and the rest was refreshing and porting my KRE d-ports back at kauffman.

I kept the factory crank and the valves/rockers didn't need any work. Almost everything else on the engine is new, or had some work done on it.

Machining included torque plate honing, decking, line hone touch-up on both the cam and main journals, crank grinding for 1 piece seal etc. Fairly extensive build. While still expensive, about 6K less than a crate from Kauffman and about 10K less than a crate from Butler. Engine made 580/600.

[Bobs66gto]

i used jeff kauffman to build my motor he did all work i went with holly snipper fuel injection KRE heads 85cc 310 cfm
comp cam 236/242 hr14
lunati 72334 hydro lifters and much more
560hp 600 trq very happy with his work he has a facebook page
check out some of his work .

[triathlonx13]

Ever thinking about calling Butler and asking?

I'm sure they would provide you with an estimation/quote.

[1969GTO]

yes the best thing you can do is either call Butler or send a text as to what you want to do, the response time is good.
I also recommend and have had Spotts Performance do a couple of street/strip engines for me, his shop is in PA.

[Verdoro 68]

The wait time when I ordered my kit from Butler was 4-5 months because of the custom pistons. This was a couple years ago, so maybe it's better now. I was fortunate to catch them when they had the cam in stock and got that immediately. I had a local machine shop go through my block and give me a finished bore size to relay to them.