[dv657172]

Pretty sure the Timing Cover Seal is leaking on my White 65 GTO (auto). Seems like an easy enough fix but what is the best way to keep the crank from moving while removing and reinstalling the Crankshaft bolt with the engine in the car?

Thanks
DV

[Half-Inch Stud]

There is a bad way i used to do successfully; breaker bar along the 1st cam lobe to jamb against the block.

I think the safe method is: to jamb a long steel tool thru a flexplate hole to interfere with the rear block ledge.

Otherwise (never tried this one a suitable rope fed thru the #1 sparkplug hole.

Got to wondering; if a visegrip locked onto the flexplate teeth ring would hold up to balancer bolt loosening, less so for tightening.

[grivera]

I always wedge a tool in a flex plate hole like HIS mentioned above.

[rwfisher]

When you do get removed and replace the seal be sure to check the balancer hub for a wear groove. If it has one you’ll just leak again. They make a repair sleeve for the hub, unless your plan is to replace balancer anyway.

[Half-Inch Stud]

One more ting: be sure to use "locator sleeves on the 2-bottom Block holes to get timing cover seal concentric to the Damper. The sleeves can be mades from 3/8
steel tubing.

Tighten cover to block 1st, oil pans bolts last. Afterall, a sagging timing cover will gap the new seal at 6:30.

[dv657172]

Thanks Half Inch but my understanding is I dont need to take the cover off to just replace the seal, correct?

Thanks

[78w72]

Originally Posted by dv657172

Thanks Half Inch but my understanding is I dont need to take the cover off to just replace the seal, correct?

Thanks

Timing cover doesnt need to be removed to replace the seal, it should come out without too much effort using a flat blade screwdriver to pry around the outer edge.

For locking the engine I use a long drift rod or big screwdriver in one of the holes on the flexplate then rotate the engine until it hits the bottom of the block....

but another usually easier way is to just use a strong air or electric impact gun on the crank bolt, that will usually break the bolt free without needing to lock up the engine. Ive done that for quite a few engines when they were out of the car sitting on the floor or a stand, and even with a tool to lock the flywheel the torque required to remove the 160 lb/ft bolt would rock the engine over... 1/2" dewalt electric impact gun spun it right out.

[mgarblik]

Yes, the seal can be replaced without cover removal. Here are some tips for quick, easy success with this one. 1. If you have room, you can remove the crank bolt with an air or electric impact. 2. You will need to block the flexplate from turning anyway, so if impact won't fit, use a 1/2" drive breaker bar or a very long ratchet to remove. 3. Many ways to stop the crank from turning. I like Vise Grips. I like to wrap the Vise Grip jaws with several wraps of electrical tape to keep from scaring anything up. 4. Balancer is a slip fit, they will usually pull right off or come off with a little tap from a shot filled hammer. 5. Seal can be removed with a seal puller, screwdriver, or mini pry bar. 6. Inspect seal area on the balancer, install repair sleeve if necessary. 7. Clean out cavity where seal seats. Put a very light coating of Aviation Form a Gasket, Permatex #2, Hylomar or similar on the OD of the seal. Not RTV. 8. Lubricate the seal ID, (rubber with white grease, wheel bearing grease, assembly lube or similar. 9. Install seal with large, deep wall socket, seal installer, or just carefully tap in evenly with shot filled hammer. 10. Slide balancer on with key. 11. Clean bolt and threads, apply blue Locktite to first 1/2"-3/4" of the threads. Then apply small amount of grease, ARP lube if you have some, assembly lube or at least a few drops of oil between the thick torquing washer and the bolt head. 12. Install the bolt and torque to 160-170 ft. lbs.
It's as easy as that. It's about a 1 hour job for a first timer. Good luck.

[dv657172]

Thanks guys for all the info.

Thank you mgarblik especially for the very detailed advice, much appreciated!!

DV

[HWYSTR455]

For bolt removal, I use a 1/2" breaker bar with a deep well socket, and lean the breaker bar on the driver's side frame rail. Then just bump the starter, done.

If it's an auto car, you can use a long screw driver or pry bar, and stick it between 2 converter bolts, with the end touching the bellhousing. (on the correct side to prevent flexplate from turning while tightening.

Although you can replace the seal without removing the cover, consider you're not sure if it was centered/located properly from the previous install, so it's best to remove it, clean it up, and reseal the whole thing.

I never use the alignment sleeves, it's a hit or miss with them. Best to use the Spotts alignment tool, or a crank snout socket to align the timing cover/seal. It's so easy that way you basically don't even need to think about it.

Choose the slightly thicker timing cover and WP gaskets (fiber) and not the very thin paper ones. The Fel Pro blue ones are ok, but I personally don't like the color.

Use the cork one for the pan lip. Glue it to the pan and let it set up. A thin bead of RTV at the 3-way joint is really all you need.

Anti-seize the bolts that go into the timing cover. The long bolts/studs wipe the entire length of them down with anti-seize. If the cover or WP gaskets seep, those 'tubes' fill up with coolant, and fuse them to the cover.

If the TC comes off, it's best to do intake gaskets too. The cover needs to be tightened first, and during intake install before final tightening, use the front bolt to draw the intake up to the TC. (this is a good time to go a coolant exchange if you don't use high milage coolant and replace the stat). Pop a block drain plug after draining rad by petcock, and before you pull off hoses. Way less mess.

If you think it's more work than what's needed, just think about what it's like to do it on a new car, and you will be relieved. Just think of it all as normal maintenance, which in fact, it is. You do similar stuff when maintaining daily drivers, like a WP swap when doing a timing belt. Same mentality.



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[steve25]

The above procedure for breaking the balanced bolt free is the way to go , it’s easy and in your tool box you should have a deep 1/2” drive 15/16” socket anyway.

[Gator67]

Do you use the Spotts alignment tool without the seal installed in the timing cover, or does the tool work if the seal is already installed? I only ask because I find it much easier to install the seal before the timing cover is bolted to the block.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Gator67

Do you use the Spotts alignment tool without the seal installed in the timing cover, or does the tool work if the seal is already installed? I only ask because I find it much easier to install the seal before the timing cover is bolted to the block.

One side of the tool is used to install the seal, the other side is used to align the cover using the inside of the installed seal, pretty slick tool.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28639602689...gAAOSw045mdHCy

[grivera]

That is a cool tool. I save the expense and just use the balancer snout to align the cover/seal. Easy-peasy.

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by Gator67

Do you use the Spotts alignment tool without the seal installed in the timing cover, or does the tool work if the seal is already installed? I only ask because I find it much easier to install the seal before the timing cover is bolted to the block.

Yes, either way, TC/seal on or off the engine, the tool can be used.



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[mgarblik]

That's a neat tool. Completely unnecessary, but I like it for some reason. I am a tool junkie, so I may have to get one.

[misterp266]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

That's a neat tool. Completely unnecessary, but I like it for some reason. I am a tool junkie, so I may have to get one.

Here’s one I had my local machine shop make up for me to line up “non factory” timing covers. Not an installer, just a line up tool. Had no idea Spotts sold one.

[67Lemons]

I have the Spotts crankshaft socket, lower cost and also allows you to align the cover on install.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/28639602778...QAAOSwST9iIlzd

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by misterp266

Here’s one I had my local machine shop make up for me to line up “non factory” timing covers. Not an installer, just a line up tool. Had no idea Spotts sold one.

That's nice too. We used those Moon covers on our funny car engine. Had 2 of them. Very nice castings and accurate. Honestly, have not had an issue with Pontiac front seals leaking from misalignment. Other engines yes. Rear seal leaks, absolutely. But not front seals.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Hmmm yea you can make/improvise a Timimg cover alignment tool to check if you TIGHT Timing coveris aligned good enough (itsa not since the old sealleaked.

You can try that breaker bar- frame lean-to deal, and bump the starter ( IGN power unclipped) and hope the darn socket+bar doesn't pop off and ding the radiator. Might be fine.