[Skippy597]

Hey everyone
Looking to get some group thoughts on oil pumps and if the price premium is worth it.

First the basic choice:
Melling m54ds 60 psi around $90
This seems to be the go to basic pump offering no frills but solid functionality.

Next the "step up":
Melling 10540 60 psi pump around $170
For some reason this pump is almost double the cost and though a lot of people praise it on here I can't fully understand why. Is it worth it? I see some people stick recommend a thicker plate which is another $30-40.

The possibly overpriced option:
Butler performance BPI-M54DS-PRO 60-70 psi pump $210
This one boasts a whole slew of upgrades including thicker plate and dimpled gears. This appears to be a modified melling M54 pump from the part number. I'm sure this is a good pump but is it worth more than twice the basic M54DS?

Ok so for a 90% street / 10%strip car is it worth the premium for either more expensive pump? Looking for your guy's experiences with any of them.
Thanks

[JLMounce]

Another options is the Nitemare Performance pump.

http://www.nitemareperformance.com/h...20oilpump.html

I'm running this along with Darren's gun drilled hardened driveshaft and his oil pan. My engine builder had high praise for the pump.

[Skippy597]

Thanks JL wasn't aware of that one.

[Skippy597]

I do know there is even more expensive options from Butler, Luhn and Titan but I excluded those as they seem overkill for mostly street engine

[steve25]

What size are your mains on this motor. 3.00” or 3.25”?

[67Lemons]

I bought a blueprinted pump from Spotts, haven’t installed it yet but the price was reasonable and he does great work.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/28680442067...IAAOSw47hiarjb

[mgarblik]

In the Pontiac world, oil pump choice is almost as controversial as what oil to put in it. I will simply post this for perspective. The Pontiac oil pump is a very simple device. 2 spur gears and a relief ball. That's it. All the "designer " pumps came about because the basic, perfectly good oil pump was cheapened up over the decades and the quality control went to hell. The old, HP pumps had a cast or thick bottom plate, ground flat. The check ball seat was lapped, machined properly and didn't leak. The surface top and bottom where the bolt heads go to attach to the block was machined flat on both sides. Short cuts were taken by the aftermarket in all these areas to save money and this introduced trouble areas on an otherwise bullet proof component. The "designer" pumps you buy for double the cost of a basic pump simply return it to the way a basic pump was made in the 1960's. You can fix or check all this stuff yourself easily or buy one that has been checked for you.
We ran regular M54F, (80 lb. relief), pumps in the Grocery Getter drag race car for 15+ years @ 8000 RPM's, and made 1500 HP with it. Never hurt a main or rod bearing in those engines. The only modifications were a welded pick-up tube and a thick bottom plate.
Being somewhat cheap, I start with a basic pump and check the items mentioned above and call it a day. We ran a factory hardened drive shaft in our pumps. Heat treated aftermarket ones look nice. Awfully hard to justify super fancy, gun drilled centerless ground, hardened drive shafts for a car going to the cruise in a dozen times a year. If it were a Ford driving the oil pump with a 1/4" Allen hex drive, that's a different story. Good luck with your build.

[sdbob]

What ever pump you buy take it apart. In the early 70s we found a 'big paper clip' inside one.Maybe also check for flash from machining.

[Skip Fix]

If it were a Ford driving the oil pump with a 1/4" Allen hex drive, that's a different story
Yea my college roommate's 35C 4 speed Ranchero snapped one!

[1969GTO]

so would a 1968 GTO 400 engines original oil pump with 45000 original miles on it, be worth just a good cleaning and reassemble?

[steve25]

Yes and since it’s a 60 psi pump it will have the thick bottom plate.

[Skippy597]

3" mains on my build

So it sounds like what I was already thinking, that the m54ds is good just tear it down and check it out first. does anyone have any specs for the pumps as to what the clearances should be?

Is a thicker plate truly worth the extra $30-40 or can I just take the regular plate and some glass and sandpaper to make sure it's flat.

I really don't understand what makes the 10540 pump nearly double the cost.

[steve25]

Even when I have a think bottom plate on my pump if I have a thin steel one from a 40 psi I sand / grind the notch off it and bolt it on to the top of thick plate.

I set up my pumps with .004” gear to plate clearance.

I polish in a nice radius from the outlet of the gear cavity and I double pin the pickup tube to the pump body after making sure the lip of the pickup screen case is sitting on the cast locating lip on the side of the pump body.

[Skippy597]

Perfect, thanks Steve!

[sdbob]

A good friend who ran roundy round Pontiacs,the one was RAV. He said at one time he doubled up the thin plates in an emergency. I never did that but !!

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Skippy597

3" mains on my build

So it sounds like what I was already thinking, that the m54ds is good just tear it down and check it out first. does anyone have any specs for the pumps as to what the clearances should be?

Is a thicker plate truly worth the extra $30-40 or can I just take the regular plate and some glass and sandpaper to make sure it's flat.

I really don't understand what makes the 10540 pump nearly double the cost.

This is the plate you want. There is no reason to use a cast iron thick plate. Why, they have countersunk bolt holes for a flathead screw or Allen bolt.
Problem is with that countersunk hole you can not fabricate a hold down strap between a bolt and you pickup.
That is the way you want to do it. Under no circumstances should you tack weld (iron/steel weld ?) a pick up to pump body. And do not mess around with screws or pins either. Why would you put anything in the flow of your oil when you can just make a strap bolted to this nice and thick Nightmare plate ?
But I am a oil pump nerd. I go all the way and enlarge the pickup dia,, 9/16" check ball with shims,drill the little oil divot in the bottom of the gears too. Even the inside dia of a 3/4" tube is marginal for size. Been proven.
http://nitemareperformance.com/pumpplate.html

[Skippy597]

Thanks Dragncar,
Yeah I been all over trying to decide what's worth it and I think I'm just gonna buy the m54ds and a thick plate from tin indian performance. I'll take the pump apart and lap the ball and clean up whatever need to be cleaned. What's the difference between the 5/8 and stock 9/16 ball. Is it worth swapping?

[PAUL K]

Not all the thick plates use countersunk bolts. In fact they are the least common.

[Skippy597]

I believe he was referring to the butler pro pump as they use countersunk bolts.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Not all the thick plates use countersunk bolts. In fact they are the least common.

That is true. I haven't seen the thick cast plate with the countersunk holes in many years. But I had no issues with them as I don't use a support strap on stock pick ups. Welding the pickup is really easy with the correct rod and clean parts. I remove the spring, ball and gears. TIG all the way around with a silicon bronze rod. Easy and zero failures. The bolted strap is fine of course but more involved if using a stock pickup. Custom pickups I generally use the strap provided. The Nightmare Performance plate is very nice. I have used several of them.