[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Yeah that's never been an issue for me as I run engines with 10-30 break in oil for a few hundred miles anyway, way more than 10 heat cycles, before I dump it for regular oil

I already bought 20/50 break-in oil. I guess I better get some 10/30 now. I didn't know that it was so important.

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Sorry, I thought you knew Hylift Johnson and Johnson were 2 different companies.

Ironically both are in michigan too which I think adds more confusion

Honestly, I wasn't sure what part number was what up until I talked to Johnson. I did know there was some that weren't Johnson's even though that they say they are. I got really confused lol. But it's been a long time since I built a hydraulic lifter motor. I know all about solids, so I'm really trying to get this one right the first out being it's not for me. I might have this one backwards idk, but he said Hy-lift sold to Top Line, or is it the other way around? But he didn't seem to think that the new company is doing as good of a job as the last one did.

I appreciate all your input on this; I always like real word experience input over hearsay.
Knowing that you used 20/50 with those HY-Lifts is good to know. He did say that his lifters have real tight clearances as well. Just not as tight as the HY-Lift.

[Formulajones]

I run 20-50 synthetic with the Johnson's too. Works fine.

[Jay S]

One of the owners of the original Johnson company went off on his own and started the Johnson lifter company in Taylor, MI around 2008ish.

Topline bought out Hy-Lift Johnson just a few years earlier, 2005???. As I recall the shop equipment from the original Johnson company became Hylift shortly before that. Speed pro was involve in that mix at some point also. Both lifter companies have ties one way or another back to the original Johnson company.

[charlie66]

I thought I would ask Butler about what oil that they break in their new builds with when using hydraulic roller cams and lifters. he said 6 qts 15W50 Driven Break in Hot Rod Motor Oil, and then 8 qts 15W50 Driven Conventional Hot Rod Motor Oil after the initial 30-minute break in. I find this interesting and confusing because Johnson is telling me that 50w is too thick to break in his lifter and to most definitely use 30w. Then I Googled (what weight is best to use when breaking in a new hydraulic lifter) It basically said the same thing as Johnson told me but with the exception of saying no more than 40w.They also say that it is crucial to drop the oil after 30 minutes because of the amount of shavings that will be in the oil from the rings seating against the cylinder walls. That material gets in the lifters and will start a premature failure. After that put new break-in oil back in and drive it for about 500 miles or so.Then there saying you can switch the oil to what you want. I'm not saying that this is right, but it does make me think about all the people having issues with today's hydraulic lifters. It does make sense to me about the shaving getting into these real tight clearanced areas in the lifter. I think the noisy ones might be noisy because maybe they weren't broken-in probably with the right oil? IDK.I was going to use a 20/50 weight break-in oil but now I'm sending back the oil and buying a 30 or 40w because of what I'm reading. I find it to be a red flag that Johnson is telling me one thing and butler is telling me another. I going the listen to Johnson being there the makers of the lifter. The guy at Johnson told me more than once how the public is very miss informed about his lifters.

I just want to say, I'm not posting this to bash anyone. Just to share what I'm coming up with. I also found an interesting video about what happening with ZDDP . If you're interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=995Rca-bTl4

[Formulajones]

That's pretty much exactly what I said I've been doing for decades in an earlier post.

Break in with proper 10-30 break in oil and after I run the engine set timing and get the basic carb tuning done, top off coolant etc... So maybe 20 minutes run time. If it's in the car I'll drive it up the street and come back to make sure trans works as that's usually new as well. So maybe a 1/2 mile. Then I dump the oil. If the engine is on the run stand same procedure without a short drive and dump the oil. Cut filter open etc...

Refill with more break in oil and drive the car 400-500 miles. Doesn't have to be exact I just change it when it's convenient, usually the following weekend after driving it all week.

Then I run the oil I want to run and I'll even change that after another 1000 miles or so just to see how things look, cut filter open etc...

You'll spend a lot in oil for the first few weeks but it's better to know what's going on and stay on top of it if a problem were to arise. Catch it early.

[scott70]

I think it’s one of those things where everyone has their own preferences on what to do so you do your research and do what makes sense to you because you’re going to get quite a few different opinions. Like do you restrict oil with pushrods or whatever on your hydraulic roller cam? Some say yes some say no. I see now where people break in their freshly built engines in 2 or 3 stages instead of 20 ish minutes of continuous run. When did that become a thing?

[Formulajones]

I don't know of that being a thing at all. When I break in a flat tappet I run it for a straight 20-30 minutes and it's done. Drop the oil and put fresh break in oil back in and drive the car.

Only reason you would stop the cam break in process short is if you have a problem but if all your ducks are in a row that shouldnt be necessary.

There are probably a few that have timing out of whack and it's running hot, don't have a fan setup or a system with good airflow while the car is sitting still. Who knows. They need to be better prepared. Those are probably the examples your hearing about

[Formulajones]

On the oil restriction thing there is no reason what so ever to restrict it for a hydraulic roller, or flat tappet for that matter. And people wonder why they have tickers?? LOL

I've only seen that done on solids and I still don't restrict oil on that stuff either. Oil is the life blood of the engine. I want it everywhere. Ive never been worried or even had the slightest issue of running the pan dry. If thats a problem for someone they probably need to start looking at a different oil delivery system, not restrict oil to the top of the engine LOL.

[scott70]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I don't know of that being a thing at all. When I break in a flat tappet I run it for a straight 20-30 minutes and it's done. Drop the oil and put fresh break in oil back in and drive the car.

Only reason you would stop the cam break in process short is if you have a problem but if all your ducks are in a row that shouldnt be necessary.

There are probably a few that have timing out of whack and it's running hot, don't have a fan setup or a system with good airflow while the car is sitting still. Who knows. They need to be better prepared. Those are probably the examples your hearing about

I’ve seen a few dyno engine break in videos where they were using intervals …. I’d never heard of it. And I reached out to butler a little while ago asking about their opinion on oil restriction on a HR and they said they prefer .020 pushrods. I don’t plan on using any restrictions on the build I have going on now.

[charlie66]

I have been reading a lot about how to break in a new hydraulic roller motor just out of curiosity and a lot of them say to do it in ten-minute intervals of 2800 rpms varying the speed by a few hundred rpms letting it cool down in between them for a 30-minute total run time. so, I've heard about this before.

I also was seeing it said that they recommended a 10w40 over a 5w30 with a high-performance motor because of the possibility of bleeding down the lifers with the thinner oil. I see a lot of recommendations of the Driven BR30 and BR40.

[charlie66]

I'm thinking about using BR30 for the first break-in. Then moving to BR40 for the 300–500-mile finish break-in.

[charlie66]

The other thing I'm reading is to use a break-in oil filter that's like 12 microns. I don't think they make one for a Pontiac. The smallest is the B39 which is said to be 18 microns but says it has an absolute of 40 microns which I don't really understand why they give two numbers. I know wix is 21.

[grivera]

Originally Posted by charlie66

I have been reading a lot about how to break in a new hydraulic roller motor just out of curiosity and a lot of them say to do it in ten-minute intervals of 2800 rpms varying the speed by a few hundred rpms letting it cool down in between them for a 30-minute total run time. so, I've heard about this before.

This sounds like a flat tappet break in process. Where did you read this?

[charlie66]

Originally Posted by grivera

This sounds like a flat tappet break in process. Where did you read this?

They said it's a roller cam. I'll try to get the link over to here it's on my phone. I post here on my desktop.

[Formulajones]

Ive never in my lifetime performed a flat tappet break in with a roller cam and I run a bunch of roller cams here.

I do however use break in oil because there are a lot of other high pressure and high wear areas in an engine that have to get happy with each other. Like pushrods, rocker arms, piston rings, piston skirts, etc.... the only difference with a roller is I don't run the engine at 2000+ rpm for 20-30 minutes upon first fire up. Some break in oils also help ring seating which is important

I will however as I explained dump the oil for fresh break in and continue making sure I keep clean oil in it with frequent changes for the first 1000 miles or so. Give the engine it's best chance, after all these things aren't cheap to build so a couple hundred bucks in oil is nothing.

[Formulajones]

One reason your reading that might be because cams rely on splash oil and they think those roller bearings need it.

It's also another reason you'll read some people like to idle their engines higher, like 1000 rpm or more so it gets more splash oil.

But if you buy good rollers with pin oiling it's a moot point also on flat tappets when you get good lifters with EDM oiling directly on the lobes or the lube option hydraulics, again it kinda makes all that pointless.

[charlie66]

https://golenengineservice.com/blog/...-in-procedure/

[charlie66]

Theres less information on this one then from on my phone. IDK why. But it has some of it

[charlie66]

I wish I knew of a real Johnson that has pin oiling.