[Vroom_vroom]

So I have been sitting on this idea for too many years. I wanna run my 1977 trans am in the silver state race/ Nevada open road. Realistically I’m a year from this with a slight possibility of the September race.

First time runs are target speed limited to between 95-110mph for the 90 mile track.
Goal is to be the closest average speed to your bracket.

I have a laundry list for the car to prep it for this but my big question is how is the front end at sustained high speeds? Front end lift is currently a concern. Front is on coil overs with the front dropped a good bit.

[Half-Inch Stud]

Subframe connectors; bolt+ weld. Good sway bar balance front-rear.

No idea about front-end lift. Maybe assure the fender air extractors are flowing. Body rake and low er to the ground may be the most effective.

[HWYSTR455]

I did 187-188 in my 71 T/A that is lowered, with no other aero mods. Full GW suspension.

It did hit a 'wall' at that point, on paper, it was capable of over 200.

A 77 is much more aero, 110 is a piece of cake. I can do that in my 2018 full size pickup stock.

Depending on you're final drive, the big thing to consider is endurance, so would suggest stuff that improves in that respect.

Engine cooling, potentially oil cooling, good oil pan (road race), good water pump/PS pump/Alt, things like that.

For stability and safety, quality tires & shocks, maybe stiffer springs, ensure all your front end parts are good/fresh, fresh fluids & filters, fresh ignition/tune-up, stiff sway bar bushings and end links, you get the idea.

You basically have to run the car somewhat hard for an hour+, keep that in mind, and adjust accordingly.

If you want more specific info, you can check other forums for people that are running those types of events and take notes.

Once you get serious and start moving up in classes, it gets more specific to safety, which is a good thing.

I wanted to run some top end events for a while, and make the '200 Club', but have lost that interest at this point.

If you want to do stuff like that with a classic, Big Red is an example of how to get it done.


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[VCho455]

I suggest going over to Pro-touring.com and dig up threads posted by Not A TA. John posted a lot of good information on aerodynamics, suspension, and safety for his Firebird. He also posted on Nastyz28.com and TA country. I certainly miss calling him up. RIP my friend.

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ems?highlight=

https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ore?highlight=

[Vroom_vroom]

Originally Posted by HWYSTR455

I did 187-188 in my 71 T/A that is lowered, with no other aero mods. Full GW suspension.

It did hit a 'wall' at that point, on paper, it was capable of over 200.

A 77 is much more aero, 110 is a piece of cake. I can do that in my 2018 full size pickup stock.

Depending on you're final drive, the big thing to consider is endurance, so would suggest stuff that improves in that respect.

Engine cooling, potentially oil cooling, good oil pan (road race), good water pump/PS pump/Alt, things like that.

For stability and safety, quality tires & shocks, maybe stiffer springs, ensure all your front end parts are good/fresh, fresh fluids & filters, fresh ignition/tune-up, stiff sway bar bushings and end links, you get the idea.

You basically have to run the car somewhat hard for an hour+, keep that in mind, and adjust accordingly.

If you want more specific info, you can check other forums for people that are running those types of events and take notes.

Once you get serious and start moving up in classes, it gets more specific to safety, which is a good thing.

I wanted to run some top end events for a while, and make the '200 Club', but have lost that interest at this point.

If you want to do stuff like that with a classic, Big Red is an example of how to get it done.


.

Have seen big red run that and it is impressive. Power steering cooler is a good one, didn’t think of that. Running 550lb springs on qa1 coilovers and a few other goodies. up front. Need to address my worn out rancho springs and sway bar that wants to kill you.

Motor has new deep groove pulleys and good belts. Cooling system is now top tier. Wheels and tires possible trans swap are coming. Thinking about b body brake swap.

I would like to make it into a more impressive mph slot but I’m not trying to go full racecar but reasonably safe and fun. It’s an event in my back yard that has always sounded like a blast.

[Skip Fix]

I can tell you on my 78 the stock 330 lb front springs at 130 at Texas World Speedway(all the stock 180 hp 400 could pull) felt as soft as Grandma's Cadillac! 550s were fine autocrossing and on street. Good bushings and lots of caste and some negative camber-usually requiring aftermarket arms.

Coolers. The Late Model Circle track car I had for awhile had lots of coolers as well as a dry sump. Even a puke can for the Muncie.

For my driving style stiffer front springs decent front bar small rear bar so I did not get brake dive unloading rear end on hard braking in turns. I do like a small rear bar. GOOD shocks Bilsteins or adjustable but then unless you know if you want more rebound or compression you get lost.
Extra bracing can help. Firewall to upper A arm mount like Herb Adams did way back when. Noit sure how needed the front sway bar brace is can;t hurt other than weight. Sub frame connectors a must even on a hard top no T top car.

Pro-Touring does have a good write up on the red car.

[HWYSTR455]

My issue these days, more so than back 'then', is that I want to drive the car on the street, and be comfortable. I don't want to have to shimmy out around a full cage, or a swing-out bar, or even pitch a hip over a dipped forward bar (look at the previous Adams' builds). I need AC, stereo, nice seats, etc. And you can't do that if you want to compete.

When you're on the street, chit can get hairy fast. And there's no room for mistakes, especially if the safety equip is lacking. So, 2 things for sure, from a mechanical standpoint, is the best suspension, brakes, and tires you can afford, even if you have to borrow money, or, just don't go fast.

I'm a PT member since before I was here. Think I used both handles, HWYSTR and HWYSTR455, but would have to check. Remember a number of threads, and focused on the F-body ones.

Suspension, AFX spindles, conventional coil springs, reverse eye leafs, tubular control arms, big brakes, and as much chassis stiffening as you can throw at it. It's not rocket science, the simple stuff works still to this day. If you follow Herb Adams' advice, it's hard to go wrong, and a lot of stuff is now available that wasn't back then.

Once you get over about 175mph, you need aero, and tons of power. Simple math. Less aero you have, the more power you need. I like the way the 70-73s look from the factory, so aero is out of the question for me.

Power. Once you start going over 175, the required power to go faster ramps up fast to go faster. 200 is a brick WALL. In a roughly 3500lbs car, you need like 850-1100hp to break 200 comfortably. To give you an idea of how fast it ramps up, I was in the 550-575hp range when I broke 180mph. And I was going down a hill. Rich guy in a built vette verified I broke 180, my speedo only went to 180, but there was no peg. The distance the needle went past 180 was roughly 10 more mph.

After the 1999 Power Tour, I set out to break 200, and was building a blower 455, but life got in the way. Sold the blower and build parts on here in the early-mid 2000s. Think Skip ended up with some of it.

If you turn RPM, strongly suggest a simple serp conversion, or even if you need more amp for stuff like fans etc. Chance of failure is much much lower.

I think the 110 class has a 124 or 130 max limit, which is pretty stout for a road course considering average speed. Wear driving glasses, especially in the hot places, mirage effect is real. Ask Gottlieb.

Thankfully, within a year or so, I will finally have my T/A back on the road. Last time I drove it was in 2001. I have other projects that are distracting me, but it's close, in assembly now. Couple road blocks, but chopping thru them...

Reminds me, need to update my build thread....

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[Skip Fix]

I do collect hand me downs for projects
An example of HP to go fast John Clegg old time Pontiac SS racer built a Texas Mile car. Granted getting up to speed in a mile is a challenge but his 64 Tempest/Lemans was just 180ish mph and had a boosted motor to do it! First year a 455 HO base second year an IA block not sure the CI.

Chris Wicker (Wick here) was going to build a ProTouring boosted early TA to go do track days. Started figuring the money and bought a used late model Vette to do it!

[Vroom_vroom]

Lots of good info and I appreciate it!

I agree, it’s not a race car. End of the day I will be road tripping this thing as much as possible and that puts me into 85mph speed limits in the surrounding areas so something that will accomplish for my goal of running this race will overlap with the street goals.

I have never ran the race but have ran that route more times than I can count when I still had the Camaros and cts-v. It’s a fun route with parts that become challenging when you are trying to average triple digits.

Tires, trans, and bigger brakes are at the top of my list so far as must haves. Keeping the 3.23 puts me at 4200@100mph and with the overdrive it will drop it down to 2900@100. Seems like a reasonable ask without spinning my 400 to the moon.

[Skip Fix]

Sticky 200 Treadwear DOT tires for autocross make a BIG difference, not as much as road race slicks though John Berget used to sell used racing tires I used when I autocrossed.

[chuckies76ta]

I glanced through everything, didn't see shocks. A good set of QA1 double adjustable shocks up front made a huge difference in my 76 T/A. I think they help keep front tires planted on the pavement better than a regular shock, with the tunable adjustments.

[sdbob]

I'd find Herb Adam's on line -web and get his input.

[Elarson]

Here's the rundown on my '75 Formula:

Welded subframe connectors and 8-point roll bar.
Herb Adams stabilizer bars front and rear
500 lb QA1 coilovers in front.
Hotchkis lowering leaf springs in back
Single adjustable QA1 shocks; set half way to get started. After I get more seat time, I'll try fiddling with them. As was mentioned a few posts ago, the double adjustable are more capable but easy to get lost.
No special aero except lowered and a factory rear spoiler.
My lap times at Mid Ohio calculated to an average speed of 97 mph, so maybe the peak on the back straight was 110-ish??
Handling was very neutral, no aero issues.
Large rear sway bar combined with terrific torque and quick throttle response forced me to learn to roll on the throttle carefully coming out of corners.

Eric

[Skip Fix]

Eric are the coil overs "Hybrid" that use the factory upper spring pocket or a weld in dedicated true coil over on the upper mount also?

[Elarson]

They use the stock upper shock mount hole and the shock mount holes in lower control arm.

Eric

[HWYSTR455]

I bet the anti-squat mod (Herb Adams) would help traction on corner exits. It did for me, very noticeable difference.

As I mentioned before, new(er) available parts address the issue:

https://www.umiperformance.com/2624-...-mounts-front/

https://www.globalwest.net/product/a...-1976-1977-19/

Doug did a vid that explains it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFW_m067E18





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[HWYSTR455]

GW reverse eye leaf info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxhM3S5J3gA

Watch to end of the short install vid for the system in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJzz9U37gwo


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[73ta]

Need A arm to firewall braces. One of the best mods for a 2nd gen chassis. Removes a lot of flex allowing the suspension to work. I run the adjustable PTFB version along with solid bushings and subframe connectors.

[HWYSTR455]

PTFB has the cross brace for the forward braces too, which helps considerably.

https://www.pro-touringf-body.com/pr...age/cowl-brace

Before that was available, and using the VSE front structural supports, I welded and bolted a piece of angle iron along the top lip of the firewall along the cowl, and that helped a very noticeable amount. Run that brace.

I had 620# front springs and went to 700# as I was going thru it, the 620s were still soft. But, it is an endura car, so...

I can't remember if the rear CAT5 leafs are 200 or 220#, I will have to look that up.

I ran Koni shocks before I took it off the road after the Power Tour, have double adjustable Vikings now, looking forward to using better shocks.

I had 17" wheels/tires in the 90s, and as setup, it would crush vettes and many exotics in handling on the street. I ran an autocross course once at a Carlisle swap meet, tight course, and w a 4 speed, I was struggling w the gear spreads, it was either bog it in a higher gear, or wind out the lower gear and spin. I had like the 11th highest time, the little import stuff were much better for that course. I was surprised I did that well really, but was better than 95% of the musclecars. I knew I would do much better on a typical road course.

There are plenty of people who run 2nd gen F-bodies on road courses, look it up, there's really no secrets to being successful, it still to this day is the basic stuff. Best advice I can give is do it for fun, and not to 'compete', and you will enjoy it.


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[Skip Fix]

Drag racing I never noticed increased hook with the Herb Adams mod, also you will need to compensate for pinion angle. I did not and maybe why it did not help as much.
My personal preference was more like Dick Guldstands stiff front springs moderate sway bar 1 1/4. He liked no rear bar for me I liked the small 5/8 rear bar.

Eric I put those ":hybrid" coil overs on a 64 Vette project and pondering them on my Impala project.