[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I have that Ram2 Fbird ALL screwed up. I mean heavy duty. Dumb luck that it worked out that close.
And L probably is California - going by 83.00 shipping destination.

edit: I was typing this while you were posting, ramair2. Thanks for clearing me up on the L plant.

-------------------------------------------------------------

The Boss probably does need to factor Pwr Drum and Disc options together. Along with shipping destination charge. Just like brians did it.

Really sorry Boss. Keep the Canadian for another time.

RA1John: We need some more April May June RA stuff if you can help. Thanks.

[The Boss]

I've got two more BHC's one for June 17th Pontiac built M21 car & one for a June 24th Baltimore built automatic, that also has PS, PB & disc - I'll run a total & see what comes up.

I have a feeling there won't be any buds.

[brians]

Baron:
Yes, you’re missing the destination charge and the power brake charge.

Here is one with manual front disc brakes. In this case it would only be the $63.19 for disc brakes.
The math on this one works out to exactly $473.94 for the RA option. This is exactly the MSRP price in the sales sheets.


Either way Boss, it’s a RA car. To me any 68 R/A F/B or GTO is cool!



Couple thoughts,
What I still don’t understand is when or how the cut-off took place?
There had to be an exact date that the option changed for orders?

The car distribution sheet is dated May 7, 1968 and the Blueprint is dated May 16, 1968. Being that the same option code is used, when would the dealer charge the new price? If a guy ordered a RA car on May 6th, what did he get?

If we were to take the May 7 date as the start and the June 12th date as the last date, it’s amazing that as many of the RA2 cars were actually built. That is just 5 weeks to order a car so very late in the model year and it cost over $100 more. To me it sounds like it might have been a tough sale.

Brian

[The Boss]

Brian, that's the same M21 sheet I've got, here's the other M-40 - the math is off someplace.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by The Boss

...here's the other M-40 - the math is off someplace.

I saw you asterisked the Automatic GTO, that list shows 2 clock options- lol. Something is off.
8.43 surplus above label price.
What about any speedo gauge adj on Autos ?

One thing that shows about the two later built Ram1 GTO's you and Brian posted. They both conformed to a $15 increase for that option at later point. Every lit bit we know helps.

Man I'm sorry for getting your hopes up on that option wh0re automatic. What is it's cowl date 04E, 05A, 05B ? Was billed May 8, 68.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Guys, I think it's important that we list all the option numbers and show all our work on these things when we do a breakdown. Gives viewers better chance to do checks and balances on us.

I went back through the Alpine Blue Auto Duece. I found a thing or two different.
The clock shouldn't be billed twice. The radials aren't free.

I don't know what option 375 is - but Brian didn't list a charge for it on the Green 4spd Car and it shows on it also. The Green 4spd also has option 754 shoulder belts that he listed no charge for either.

Anyway - if I use the same science towards the math on this Alpine Blue Auto Duece - it fits.



347 Ram Air blank
351 THM tranny 236.97
361 STT HD posi 63.19
375 ? ?
382 AM pbutton/Man Ant 61.09
412 Dr Edge Grds 6.24
422 Visor Mirr R&L 4.21
431 Custom Seatbelts 12.64
454 Rally One 61.09
476 (472 Console Auto) 68.46
(474 Clock) 0 (already billed in with 484 option)
484 Gauges & Clock 50.55
503 (501 Pwr Str) 94.79
(502 Pwr Brakes) 42.13
521 Frt Disc Brakes 63.19
531 Soft Ray ALL 34.76
621 Ride & Handle 4.21
71S 72M Wht Radial Tires 10.53
754 Shoulder Belts Frt 0 (inclusive ?)

Option Total (less RA) ..... 814.05
Destination.......................70.50
Base Price.....................3101.00

Subtotal...................... 3985.55
Ram Air II ..................... 473.94

Total ......................... 4459.49

Label Price ................. 4459.49

Now it fits .... dang it.

[The Boss]

Here's another one if somebody wants to ask for it - I'd love to know the invoice date - the EUN on the block is over 100k units past the one on the 6/24 cars motor.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=110186097289

[The Boss]

I didn't understand the charge for clock & then have it included in the gauges again also - but who knows. The $8 mistake would be exact for trunk mat, but nothing is on the card for that.

No sweat on the goof, it's still going to have a II in it, for some reason I've had more luck finding those motors than the I's.

--------------------------

Edit - 05A

[The Boss]

754 w/431 is $26.33

Why would that be inclusive?

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I guess you saw I had to edit that last post a couple times, Boss.

I was calling it Teal instead of Alpine. And my subtotal I posted as 3988.55 instead of the correct 3985.55.

But the SOB is right. lol. Just letting you guys know I could REALLY use some Canadian "cigarettes" to help do this stuff.

Boss, #431 reads like it includes Frt Shoulder - (except on Convertible) - for $12.64.
For $9.48 - you just get front and rear custom/deluxe lap belts.

Might be one of those deals like the dual exhaust on the Bird. They just list it because it's going on there. But Billing knows what gets charged and what not (?) maybe. Like the double listed clock deal.

Fun - Huh ?

Looks like the 754 only becomes a charge option if applied on a convertible. They list 754 on hardtop so we know to add 12.64 for #431, instead of just 9.48.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Drop some more 68 RA GTO BH Cards on out here, boys and girls.

April May and June.

BlkBrd, your Black Bird sounds REALLY REALLY NICE. But I'm not doing anymore Birds for a while. Not qualified yet. May never be.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

I just had to.
Went back and cleaned up the Ram2 Bird some more.

ramair2 and BlkBrd : When you go to scan your Order Form detail sheets - you can change it to "text" or "black-white" selection on scanner options - instead of "color" or "picture". This will lower the file size dramatically. Been there/done that.

There should be a third or even fourth sheet involved with the two sheets that ramair2 already posted.

I have never PHS'd a 68. But have done a few 67 GTO's. Using those 67 sheets I have found some more useful data for this Bird.

#568 is the Notchback seat.

#742 "should" concern differential - maybe optional gear (charge-no charge?). Sales code column 74 pertains to differentials in 1967. Would be on sheet #3 or #4.

#37P is still mysterious. But it (37P) also appears on BlkBrds Ram1. Since you both also have option #554 Custom in common, I'm guessing it has some pertinence to a detail involved with the Custom option. More than likely a non-charge item, like #375 on the Goats.

In all truth - I'm just guessing that 554 is Custom. 37P could be Custom. One of them is. They are both (554 - 37P) shared by yours and BlkBrd's both physically and on paper. You guys need to dig in a lil deeper and scoure those sheets.

#754 shoulder belts is only a "charge" item on Convertibles.


1968 Bird Ram2 4spd QQ/Blk Bench Custom-Deluxe

347 Ram Air .......................................blank
358 4spd Manual Close Ratio................184.31
361 STT HD Posi.................................63.19
37P ? ................................................. ?
383 (381 Rear Ant)...............................9.48
-----(382 AM pbutton)........................61.09
481 Dual Exh..................................(inclusive)
531 Soft Ray ALL................................30.54
554 Custom Option............................114.80
568 Notchback Bench..........................31.60
71M 72C Redlines.................................n/c
742 *concerning differential/gearing........n/c*
754 Shoulder Belts.........................(inclusive- on later hardtops -at the least)


Options total .............................. 495.01
Destination....................................83. 00
Base price..................................2666.00

Subtotal....................................3244.0 1

Ram Air II....................................747.77 (conforms with 4/29/68 bulletin)
(#345-400 option 273.83 + RamII 473.94 = 747.77)

Total.........................................3991 .78

Label price.................................4106.78

$115.00 is missing from this list. Plenty of room was left for Ram2 status though. : )

There could be a "MEMO-SPECIAL EQUIPMENT" involved with your Car. Or a price increase in base price. Just launching some possibilities.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

37 P/ 37P on the Birds and,
37 5/ 375 on the Goats

- is going to be for something common on GTO option or Fbird400 option. I'm thinking like lap belts, padded carpet, some kind of thing of that nature.

ALL the GTO's we've done have had it (37 5/ 375), at no charge.

#554 IS the Custom option on Birds.

[Cammer-6]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

I just had to.
Went back and cleaned up the Ram2 Bird some more.

ramair2 and BlkBrd : When you go to scan your Order Form detail sheets - you can change it to "text" or "black-white" selection on scanner options - instead of "color" or "picture". This will lower the file size dramatically. Been there/done that.

There should be a third or even fourth sheet involved with the two sheets that ramair2 already posted.

I have never PHS'd a 68. But have done a few 67 GTO's. Using those 67 sheets I have found some more useful data for this Bird.

#568 is the Notchback seat.

#742 "should" concern differential - maybe optional gear (charge-no charge?). Sales code column 74 pertains to differentials in 1967. Would be on sheet #3 or #4.

#37P is still mysterious. But it (37P) also appears on BlkBrds Ram1. Since you both also have option #554 Custom in common, I'm guessing it has some pertinence to a detail involved with the Custom option. More than likely a non-charge item, like #375 on the Goats.

In all truth - I'm just guessing that 554 is Custom. 37P could be Custom. One of them is. They are both (554 - 37P) shared by yours and BlkBrd's both physically and on paper. You guys need to dig in a lil deeper and scoure those sheets.

#754 shoulder belts is only a "charge" item on Convertibles.


1968 Bird Ram2 4spd QQ/Blk Bench Custom-Deluxe

347 Ram Air .......................................blank
358 4spd Manual Close Ratio................184.31
361 STT HD Posi.................................63.19
37P ? ................................................. ?
383 (381 Rear Ant)...............................9.48
-----(382 AM pbutton)........................61.09
481 Dual Exh..................................(inclusive)
531 Soft Ray ALL................................30.54
554 Custom Option............................114.80
568 Notchback Bench..........................31.60
71M 72C Redlines.................................n/c
742 *concerning differential/gearing........n/c*
754 Shoulder Belts.........................(inclusive- on later hardtops -at the least)


Options total .............................. 495.01
Destination....................................83. 00
Base price..................................2666.00

Subtotal....................................3244.0 1

Ram Air II....................................747.77 (conforms with 4/29/68 bulletin)
(#345-400 option 273.83 + RamII 473.94 = 747.77)

Total.........................................3991 .78

Label price.................................4106.78

$115.00 is missing from this list. Plenty of room was left for Ram2 status though. : )

There could be a "MEMO-SPECIAL EQUIPMENT" involved with your Car. Or a price increase in base price. Just launching some possibilities.

Only if you ordered the Protection group 322 was the shoulder belts a no cost item.
This group included door edge guards, front and rear mats ,rear window defogger ,spare tire cover,front and rear custom(deluxe) belts and shoulder belts. Cost was $58.38 for 22337 and $34.16 for 22367. Option 754 was a cost option in 2 forms with custom belts and without custom belts.Option 431 was custom belts for all models and price was $12.64 (except convert.),$9.48 for convertible.Rear shoulder belts were added for additional $26.33.Custom belts were not part of the custom trim option.
Ive got custom belts with shoulder belts in a stripped down model and standard belts with shoulder belts in a loaded up custom trim car.

[brians]

Baron:
The $115 that you are missing is the base price increase.
The base Firebird had an increase to $2,781. I can’t find the sheet but I believe it was Jan. 1 1968.

Code 754 is related to that. The shoulder belts became std. equipment except conv’t . Again going off memory, but I think it was Jan. 1, 1968 for all Pontiacs. The option box would have remained in the billing card because of the conv't, but no cost was associated on the HT as it was std. equipment.

I ran the black conv’t in your link and it comes out right.
(talk about some options!)


I believe we have enough data on the RA2 GTO’s to atleast “assume” the 1-1-68 option price sheet is right. If we get more May sheets, we may actually be able to narrow the RA changeover date down.

Firebird is still messing me up. I ran my RA1 F/B and can’t get it right unless I charge $9.48 for the ride and handling package - which should have only been $4.21 with the 400 option?
If I use $9.48 then the exact $15.00 increase shows up? Maybe another increase?

Anybody else’s head hurt???

Brian

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Thank you Brian.

So ramair2's Ram2 Bird comes up even on the Label Price- (without a charge for front shoulder belts I might add).

You want a headache - try dissecting BlkBrd's RA1 Bird Hardtop. I'm not ready to talk about it yet. LoL

[The Boss]

Here's my RAI 4spd bare bones car - if you want to check the math - 12D tag, January 3rd invoice.

[Cammer-6]

Sept 67 Price schedule Page 1



Page 2




Feb 68



found this also

[ramair2]

Thanks for the AMAZING teamwork guys, especially BVZ and Brians. You guys got my cars price down to the CENT! I had no idea shoulder belts were "no cost". Didnt know about the 1-1-68 (4%) increase in base price either. Bet that pissed people off who were pricing cars back in 12/67 and bought in 1/68!

BTW I have docs on another insane car but unfortuanely BH is buried somewhere in the attic. Its a late april RA convertibird (leather interior, LOADED) but the invoice was mid-late JUNE 68!

PHS said RA 1 and its a matching WI car so I am sure its a not a duece but given the late invoice I wonder if that screwed up billing? I'll try to dig up the docs...

Had no idea this RA II thread would have such legs! Keep em coming! :-)

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Here's my RAI 4spd bare bones car - if you want to check the math - 12D tag, January 3rd invoice.

1968 GTO Ram1 4spd - (12D build) FlamBurg The Boss
Jan.3, 1968 billing date. N2 223

347 Ram Air ..........................blank
358 4spd .............................184.31
361 STT HD posi.....................63.19
375 ? ....................................n/c
384 AM-FM p/b-Man Ant..........133.76
454 Rally One.........................61.09
472 Console-Manual.................52.66
521 Disc Brakes Frt..................63.19
532 SoftRay WS......................25.28
71P-72C (PC) Rlines WdOval.........n/c
754 Frt Shdr Blts.......................n/c
SVT Cordova Top (vinyl)...........94.79


Option total (less RA)............678.27
Destination...........................75.75
Base price.........................3101.00

Subtotal...........................3855.02

Ram Air.............................342.29

Total...............................4197.31

Label price.......................4197.31


This one must have been on the very early edge of front shoulder belt being n/c.

We may even find one or more odd examples of where a customer elected not to have the shoulder belts installed on his headliner by personal preference - even after they were n/c. I'm not sure if they became "MANDATORY" in Hardtops (maybe-maybe not), but did come as standard when Brian mentions. So don't anybody flip out if we discover one after that date without 754 on BHC sometime.

This one shows no $15 increase in 347 R/A at this earlier stage.

The Ram1 March build Firebird Agena Blue, the April build Blk/Blk GTO and the May build VodooGreen GTO all do show the $15 Ram1 increase to be evident and correct for that later period in time.