[KEN CROCIE]

Hopeing that set going to SOCal has my name on them

[critter]

I want to preface this with some information. There's a huge history behind Ron Watts and the tri-y headers he's building. I'll let you folks do your own research regarding that. My purpose here is to only to offer the facts as they pertain to me and then an honest opinion of the situation.

On May 7 I contacted a fellow, he frequently posts under the screen name of Aron_MK on forums on the internet about purchasing a set of round port headers he purchased from Ron. I missed buying those from him by a few minutes but he told me he had been on the phone with Ron and he knew that he had another set of round ports on the jig and about finished. He suggested I call him. I did. After roughly 30 minutes of discussion I agreed to purchase a set.

On May 12 Ron was sending me photos of the completed headers along with a UPS tracking number.

Today, May 19, I took delivery of the headers via UPS. Keep in mind they had to travel from California to Arkansas. The shipping time was fine with me.

UPS did the box the headers were in no favors. Luckily the headers were well packed and attention was given to padding the corners and ends so that despite the gorillas in brown, they survived the trip in good shape.

Removing them from the box my initial reaction was how heavy and solidly built they were. Closer examination bore that out. The flanges are a full 3/8 inch thick and the tubing was heavier than any header I've owned to date. I'm not a professional header builder or metal worker so I won't pretend to say what gauge the tubing was but they're sturdy.

Closer examination revealed that the welding was not perfect but adequate. I had some concern when I found one tube that had no exterior weld at all but looking inside the tube it showed no parting line so I have to figure it's solid. That said, I might take the time to do some touch up welds with my MIG and do some smoothing with my burrs and sanding scrolls just to make them "pretty" before sending them to my coater. Functionally the welds seem to be fine.

Laying a straight edge across the flanges showed they were straight and smooth. The mounting surface is smooth so an embossed header gasket might be a good Idea. I use soft, solid copper so I'll anneal those and put them back in to start with. I suspect they'll mount up easily and seal well based on what I've seen.

Now we deal with my opinion. Take it for what it's worth. I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Ron prior to ordering these. He gave me the history of what's happened with his work to bring these headers to market. I gave him my unvarnished opinion about how his lack of a solid business plan was not a customer's problem and how he MUST make good on the back orders. To his credit he agreed that it was paramount that he fill those orders but that cash flow was a real issue. Without new orders it was going to be very difficult for him to fill the old orders.

I did get the impression that he had a genuine wish to take care of all his customers, new and old alike.

Would I order from him again? Yes. Why? because prior to buying these headers I also purchased a used Canton oil pan and pickup from Ron. He has been true to his word on both purchases and delivered as advertised. Communication was good on both purchases via phone and email.

I know others have had dissimilar experiences but these are mine. I've related this as factually and honestly as I can. Here are some photos of my headers:

The headers as delivered:



The missing weld area:



The inside of the ports and how the welding flash has been cleaned up:



A ruler on the 3/8 flanges:

[455GRIN]

WOW!!! So you ordered a set on May 7th and received headers within two weeks!!! WOW, fresh money talks...while the rest of us paid customers wait??? Bad business plan for sure.
In Sept 10, I thought I was bringing in new money to help "sponsor" guys who paid in 2005???
Just don't understand...being an accountant...I'm used to FIFO (first in first out). Again, not sure how your supposed to attract new customers when so many of us received nothing and we are told our money is gone???

[critter]

I'm not here to comment on Ron's business acumen, only on my experience with him. I understand what you and other buyers are saying. I can only offer my heartfelt wish that he fills those orders in short order for all who are waiting.

[Larry Navarro]

Ron should be honoring those orders from folks who paid along time ago.
Late last year, Ron sent me pictures of the D-port headers I was to receive. Since I didn't need them right away, I told Ron to go ahead and use them for the "sponsor program" so as to avoid a problem such as the one noted by 455GRIN.
Yes, it's definetly not right.......but maybe there's a publishing deadline for a new HPP feature article that needs to be met.
Ahh.......but unless Ron buys ad space in HPP, a "new product feature" is NOT likely to happen. That's an issue I'm very familiar with.

[critter]

Larry, that was uncalled for. I'd ask now and here for an apology. This has nothing to do with HPP or my relationship with them. I ordered a set. He delivered. That's all I said. I delivered an honest report of that transaction and my opinion. If you don't wish to apologize, well, I'm sorry. It only makes you look small.

I agree he needs to deliver. I've told him so.

[Larry Navarro]

.....I can only offer my heartfelt wish that he fills those orders in short order for all who are waiting.
Chris, are you in politics or something? Do you cut in line to renew a drivers license so you don't have to wait like others in the endlessly long lines?
Apology.....?
For what?
To raise scrutiny of the issue that your quick order and delivery MAY have something to do with the possibility of an article in HPP about your headers?
Maybe you were given priority over other customers because of your affiliation with HPP?
Connect the dots........You have to admit it sure seems ironic, huh?
Prove me wrong.

[critter]

There's no story. Sorry my post created this problem. I'm done posting here now.

[aronhk_md]

Ok guys......lets have a time out please. I think this has been addressed before, but maybe not so let me once again share some info.

First...you guys who bought headers 5 yrs ago are not forgotten. Neither are the ones who placed an order within the past year.

But please be aware, much water has flown under the bridge since Ron came back last year to try to make things right. He's had bumps in the road that have kept him from quickly filling the old and new orders. If you dont know what those are, read the thread over.

That said, the idea of 1 sponsor for 1 old order, while nice did not work out perfectly. I have to give him credit for trying though. Instead, there have been occasions where he has had to make and sell a set in between to pay a bill, or keep the roof over his head.

Does that excuse him for not getting out the new sponsored orders? I dont know. Decide for yourself. Unlike someone with deep pockets, 1 little bump in the road for Ron can make him take 2 steps backward.

Do ANY of you remember not long ago I said on multiple occasions I thought Ron was trying but that he wasnt out of the woods yet? I was serious...I did not know if he was going to make it. But more recently I have heard things that make me believe he IS going to make it. And he's almost there.

I repeat.....to keep the roof over his head and the shop open is paramount. If he doesnt......NOBODY gets the headers they paid for. This guy isnt going out and spending his money in Vegas. He isnt buying cars. I feel for him because I dont think his family had a Xmas......at all. I'm not asking you to feel sorry for him. I'm only pointing out that what I know of Ron is his OBSESSION to get these headers done. And he is emotionally exhausted by it.

Final note: there is something coming that will enable him to complete all orders.....old and new quickly. I'm not at liberty to tell you about his info, but I BELIEVE that what I have heard is true......and if it is it wont be long before multiple sets of headers are going out to old and newer orders.

P.S. - CRITTER'S HEADERS WERE DONE AS A STOPGAP MEASURE. AGAIN, IF RON DOES NOT KEEP THE DOORS OPEN UNTIL HIS NEW ARANGEMENT UNFOLDS EVERYONE LOSES. I'M TELLING YOU THE MAN IS OBSESSED WITH FILLING THE OLD ORDERS. ITS ALL HE THINKS ABOUT.

[aronhk_md]

*flowed under the bridge......

lol

[West Coast GTO]

Hello all,
I don't have a dog in this hunt yet but I am considering replacing the headers/ downpipes due to the caved-in area of the passenger side pipe, just sits too low. After reading the many, many, many posts here both pro and con my simple impression is this; I will be happy to plunk down my hard earned money on what appears to be a great product only when there are no more angry pre-paid customers waiting for their headers and posting those comments.

[SD421]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

[b]
To raise scrutiny of the issue that your quick order and delivery MAY have something to do with the possibility of an article in HPP about your headers?
Maybe you were given priority over other customers because of your affiliation with HPP?
Connect the dots........You have to admit it sure seems ironic, huh?
Prove me wrong.

If you are right Larry, then from a business point of view I dont blame Ron for doing it then. This will drum up more business and give Watt the necessary funds to fill his old orders plus make the new ones as well & pay back what he owes to Clark. Which is something I have been telling Watt all along to do.

This is how I see it FWIW,
Don

[aronhk_md]

Originally Posted by West Coast GTO

Hello all,
I don't have a dog in this hunt yet but I am considering replacing the headers/ downpipes due to the caved-in area of the passenger side pipe, just sits too low. After reading the many, many, many posts here both pro and con my simple impression is this; I will be happy to plunk down my hard earned money on what appears to be a great product only when there are no more angry pre-paid customers waiting for their headers and posting those comments.

West Coast GTO,

Understandable. You will be very happy with the headers. They are solidly well made and will fit much better than what you have. Just keep checking the threads and hopefully in the near future Ron will reach that goal.

For others watching Ron is still accepting new orders right now. Capital is still used to put out orders already placed, it is just not possible as mentioned to always do 1 header for 1 old order.

If I did not mention it before its important to note that Ron is now able to mig and tig each set of headers completely himself. That is partly due to the addition of the tig, and also due to fixing a longstanding issue with his mig that had him thinking he couldnt get a consistent bead. This is significant because for the first time he is able to cut out the expense and difficulty of hiring a welder. Ron and his silent partner are reaching the point where I think soon (not this week or next perhaps, but in the near future) you will start seeing headers regularly leaving for their buyers.

At that time I think Ron will be able to provide customers with a delivery date when they place an order.

[mbwicz1]

There are a couple of things that are true on both sides here:

1. Ron has not been able to keep promises on delivery dates, or provide a schedule.
2. New customers are nervous to buy something that they don't know when it will arrive.

1. There have been posts stating headers have been received in the last month. More posts than the 3 prior months combined.
2. Without new orders it is likely that the 'old' customers will not get their headers.

I don't see how it helps anyone by continuing to bash Ron and his business. There is plenty of this documented in this post and others. Ron was pretty good at communicating with me, I tried to let him know when I needed my headers and he tried to meet that date.
I suggest for the guys that really need the headers, let Ron know. If you remain on the sidelines just waiting for a package to show up, you may be waiting a long time.
This is a hobby, and to have specialty vendors like Ron helps make it a better hobby. I am not trying to be a cheerleader, just trying not to be negative. I doesn't help anyone to bash.

Mike

[gearbanger]

I actually do have a dog in this fight since I ordered back in '05. But all I can say is this. Stop trying to figure out Ron's "system" for getting these back orders done or you will drive yourself crazy. As long as he is delivering a "new" order and an "old" order every now and then, that is about as good of news as you are going to get. I am just praying that he keeps going like he is going right now.

[GTOLou]

Doesn't he take paypal?

Seems like if you want a set call him and give him 30 days. If he doesn't come through, then contact paypal for your money back...

[aronhk_md]

GTOLou....thats absolutely correct. Anyone paying by paypal is protected.

Gearbanger.....yes, lets try to stay positive. For a long time I didnt have a dog in this hunt either. I had headers and yet I was convinced that Ron was trying....so decided to help what little I could. I am convinced enough that I sold my headers and gave the money back to Ron. Now my dog is back in the hunt. I am convinced things will be looking up for everyone soon. He is getting or has just gotten tooling he needed and supplies will be coming shortly I hope.

On that note.......does anyone need a set of BLEMISHED O-port Tri-Y's? Ron wouldnt sell them as finished product because the welds arent as clean.....some are fairly wide and they were done by 2 people. I had to pry them away from him because he is very particular. Wont really see it once in the car, and they are available and ready to go for $400......proceeds going back to Ron. Anyone interested contact me for some pics of them during construction.

[GTOLou]

Aron - there were early posts about bigger tube tri-y's??

Did those ever come through?

Say, 2" header tubes?

[aronhk_md]

The first of those 2"er's is coming about right now...they are if I'm correct mostly assembled. Thats one of the orders from last year. Dont think Ken Crocie will mind me naming him as the recipient since he has already made a post about receiving a set in general. Hopefully we'll have some pics soon. 2" will be joined after that by even bigger ones, and stainless as well.

Keep in mind though that from what we know about these headers they have easily handled even the 700 hp Roger Bolliger is making with just 1 3/4"....so I'd expect the need for 2+ inches to be for the really high HP engines. Roger is expected to pick up a set of the bigger tube headers, as is Roadrage Dave, along with Ken, so the hope is somewhere we may get some dyno results on those puppies as well. Would be interesting to see Rogers motor on the dyno with his current set, immediately followed by the bigger set. Maybe someone will ask him what his plans are.

[roadrage david]

wel I have send a mail to Ron telling him to hurry up!!!. Our engine witch is going to be build shortly by cvms wil hopefully compeat against Rogers engine and car. this wil be a diferend animal then Roger hase, Roger hase a 496ci 700 hp engine and shifts at 5500/6000. our engine wil be a 4 inch stroke 475 ci and wil be making the same hp but about 13/1500 rpm more then him, witch in the past proved to be the limitations of the TRI-Y headers(so i heard) our engine wil be on the dyno as wel. and we wil do a chassic dyno when the car hase been compleated. we will see what the bigger 2+ primarys can do!! with the 3.5 inch collecters....... Im confidend they wil diliver but to me the ground clearense is the most importend..