[north]

ATC must do three things if you think of it:
control air temp flowing into car
control fan speed
direct air to different vents

Most ATC's I've run across do at least some of these. The most challenging one is directing to different vents.

If the ATC can't control fan speed hide a fan switch under the dash and have it run directly to the blower motor.

If it can't control temp you can easily install a non air style temp cable and jury rig it to the temp door lever on the heater box in the car.

If it can't direct air to the right vents you have a bigger problem.

If you think about how ATC operates the most likely problem is the programmer and they surprisingly turn up NOS on eBay. They were so expensive in the day that any that weren't sold by the end of warranty were probably never sold. So there are many out there, especially the later years as they became more commonly installed.

I'm talking big, we shall see, my Bonneville system works fine except for it refusing to go to higher fan speeds when needed. I have an NOS fan control switch in case it's the switch but I'll start in the spring by testing power to the fan etc.

My GP system is an unknown since my fan motor is burned out, I bought a new one which I'll install over the winter and then see from there.

[57Chieftain]

Nice score, John! I'm glad that you caved in to the peer pressure and got a longroof!

[north]

Thanks,

Your pic has me thinking about Bonneville 428 grille emblems, when did the start adding them?

My Bonnie is a November car out of southgate with no emblem, can anyone else key in?

[blubomber]

I have only seen one Bonneville without the grille emblem so I would think it was added very early on in the production run. It was a one year only part (AFAIK) since it is different than the 428 fender badges used in '67, '68, and '69 (non Bonneville 428 equipped B bodies) (no distinction for HO or not).

Originally Posted by north

Thanks,

Your pic has me thinking about Bonneville 428 grille emblems, when did the start adding them?

My Bonnie is a November car out of southgate with no emblem, can anyone else key in?

[north]

I'm only referring to cars without the no charge regular fuel 400 of course.

[David Brown]

Have you replaced the High Blower relay North? That is usually the reason for no high speed on the fan.

The control part numbers I listed were for 1970 only. I don't think 1969 didn't use the woodgrain, did they? So, is the difference between the 1970 Bonneville and Car/Exec controller is the Bonne used a better quality woodgrain? I replaced my original 20 years ago because it was ugly and you couldn't read the settings at night. The used replacement is much better, but still a little lighter than my dash woodgrain.

I also have a 1969 speedo/gauge unit in the car, which is the blue/gray instead of black background. Other than that, they are the same.

[blubomber]

The '69 dash does not use the wood grain except over on the panel in front of the passenger above the glove box. There is a piece of brushed aluminum applique' that glues onto the plastic dash panel. Often times these are somewhat mangled with age and plastic warpage due to heat/cold. They can usually be removed and rolled flat again with a kitchen rolling pin. The black stripe around the perimeter can be easily touched up as well. The wood grain panel above the glove box was different (wood grain sytle and wording) depending on the mnodel; e.g. Catalina, Ventura, Executive, Bonneville, Brougham, with or without AC or ATC. The Catalina pattern was more of a pine wood grain. The others were a sort of burled walnut. In '70 the Bonnevilles has a little metal potmetal recessed insert with the word Bonneville in the panel. This was the same badge used on Bonneville '69 door panels with the wood grain inserts.

In '70 the dash style looks the same except that instead of using a wood grain applique' the wood grain is integral to the dash piece. This eliminated the issue with the plastic expanding and contracting due to heat and cold which would in turn affect the glued on piece of brushed aluminum in '69's. The '70 was a better design, and better looking IMO.

The overlay decal on the temperature control unit matched the pattern in each year. In "69 it was silver aluminum faced decal and in '70 it went to a wood grain decal. I've never seen a wood grain one in good condition in a junkyard. Occassionally a silver one can be salvaged.

[David Brown]

[QUOTE=The overlay decal on the temperature control unit matched the pattern in each year. In "69 it was silver aluminum faced decal and in '70 it went to a wood grain decal. I've never seen a wood grain one in good condition in a junkyard. Occassionally a silver one can be salvaged.[/QUOTE]

So there must have been a woodgrain decal for the Bonne, and a different one for the Cat/Exec for 1970. I have never seen one offered for sale of either type, and I doubt that is a part that will ever be reproduced.

[blubomber]

Several years ago I met a guy on line from Zeeland MI who was hired to do a restoration on a red '69 Bonneville convertible. I sold him a dash. He had several '69 model silver/aluminum stick-on decals made but I don't know who did the work. Since it was such a low production they cost about $50 ea IIRC. I bought at least one to always have a good spare. As far as a '70 wood grain one I have no idea. As we all know there are not many of these big B body cars out there. Not a big market.

I think there is a shop/guy in Hemmings who does wood grain work for things like "woody wagons" and even dash boards. It appears the process uses some kind of vinyl plastic and then heat shrink it to bond with the metal part.

My guess is that only the Catalina wood grain was different, at least it was in '69. The difference is in the wording on the panel to identify the model of the car. In '70 the Bonneville used the metal badge as I mentioned instead of the stencil painting. Not sure about the other B body models.

Originally Posted by David Brown

So there must have been a woodgrain decal for the Bonne, and a different one for the Cat/Exec for 1970. I have never seen one offered for sale of either type, and I doubt that is a part that will ever be reproduced.

[north]

[QUOTE=David Brown;5323584]Have you replaced the High Blower relay North? That is usually the reason for no high speed on the fan.

Yes I did, it was bad and the NOS one is working properly. I just didn't have time last year to do proper electrical testing. I have an NOS fan control switch if need be but first I want to measure power to the fan itself to make sure it's not the fan motor or a cracked wire. Could also be heavy grime blockage on the condenser and heater core but unlikely that that both would be equally blocked (air flow volume is identical regardless of temperature)

All of the different modes and temperature management are fine, just can't get it to go onto higher speeds. I noticed in the wiring diagram that the hi-lo switch not only cuts out the two higher speeds, it also changes the other two speeds to be more aggressive for a given delta in temperature.

The poor service employees at the dealers who were used to oil changes and swapping out bum radios must have been bewildered by this set up.

[north]

Not sure in 70 but in 69 you couldn't just put a decal over the AC head because the lettering for control position is not ink but actually transparent so that the light can shine through from underneath.

[blubomber]

That's true. The decal has the lettering cut out for the light to shine thru for the appropriate selections. All are lit up with hthe ights on, not just when the particular function is selected. IIRC there is a bulb attached from the rear that lights up the entire cavity that has a semi transparent lens all around the selector levers. I had to remove and clean the surface to apply the new decal.

If we could find a very competant technician I would be willing to lend my template to produce more. I'd do the same for a '70 if I had one.

FYI. I reconditioned my passenger side dash plate years ago. It was aged and faded. All I did was tape off the outside boundry and use a small hand brush with silver aluminum paint and then remove the tape. The Bonneville lettering was pretty good so I left it alone. I don't have the artistic skill to paint free hand but I am sure if I looked around town enough I could have found someone with the skill at the college or HS Art Department. After I refreshed the border I then sprayed the entire piece with clear gloss paint. It looks very very good according to everyone who has seen it.

BTW...I spray painted my taillight lenses with clear gloss as well. It brought all the vibrant red color right back out of the lenses. I did take them out of their housings of course.

Originally Posted by north

Not sure in 70 but in 69 you couldn't just put a decal over the AC head because the lettering for control position is not ink but actually transparent so that the light can shine through from underneath.

[north]

BTW, on the subject of 69-70 dashboards this dash was designed for a passenger airbag, hence the very low and useless glovebox. If you pull your glove box you will see a huge open area of wasted space (for the airbag) above it.

I don't remember where but there are factory photos around of an air bag test done on a 69 Bonneville convertible with the passenger door removed. Air bags must have been less violent then since the lovely model suffered not even mussed hair.

[Alvin]

Few of ideas on dash vinyl repair / replacement:

- I remember as a kid in the early '70s my dad purchasing a roll of "Burled Walnut" vinyl to repair the center console and dash application on our 1967 Grand Prix. He created a simple paper template to make 1 cut on the new vinyl.

- Also reminds me of a Pontiacr I know, Glen Duncan, who used Eastwood materials to hand restore a '39(?) Pontiac metal dash and interior window faux "wood treatment" as shown below

- And, on our '73 Grand Am I met a young guy who worked @ local specailty woodworking Co. and sourced a close to "Crossfire Mahogany" veneer that he cut, trimmed, finished simular to the OEM look.

[north]

I love those photos, I wish I could have such a neat, well organized work area, look at all those little bins. I just don't seem to have it in me!

[David Brown]

The 70 woodgrain on the A/C control also has transparent wording for the various modes that also light up at night, so there is a lot more involved than just slapping on new woodgrain vinyl. All the 70 models had the metal badge on the passenger side insert, for Bonneville, Catalina and Executive. I have never seen a difference in the woodgrain between the B body models, although I never really examined them. The passenger side pieces are all the same except for the model badge. The 69 right side piece looks about the same too, except as mentioned, the model in printed on the woodgrain vinyl.

[brucee70]

Originally Posted by David Brown

The 70 woodgrain on the A/C control also has transparent wording for the various modes that also light up at night, so there is a lot more involved than just slapping on new woodgrain vinyl. All the 70 models had the metal badge on the passenger side insert, for Bonneville, Catalina and Executive. I have never seen a difference in the woodgrain between the B body models, although I never really examined them. The passenger side pieces are all the same except for the model badge. The 69 right side piece looks about the same too, except as mentioned, the model in printed on the woodgrain vinyl.

I'll add my 2 cents worth ....just read some of the posts here. There is a difference in the wood grain appliques (sp?) between a Bonneville and Catalina/Executice models. The Bonneville had the Burled Walnut look on both the Passenger side insert and the driver dash area. Catalina/Executives had a more horizontal pattern to the wood grain and it was a little lighter. My 70 SW started life as an Executive. I picked the passenger side insert from a Bonneville I parted out and found a NOS drivers Bezel somewhere on ebay. Hardest to find was the A/C control ...finally found one ...and if you throw enough $$ at something sometimes you'll be the highest bidder. Attached is a picture of my drivers side bezel before I found the a NOS A/C unit ...Difference is pretty noticable.

A friend of mine had a roll of the Burled Walnut awhile back ...so there was a way to buy it. Have not looked any up recently.

[David Brown]

I still would like to know the difference between the control units on the Bonneville vs. the Catalina & Executive. I kind of remember almost buying an NOS unit years ago, but it was the Cat/Exec unit, and by the picture on ebay, I think the woodgrained part was shorter and there was a wider space on the left side that must have gone behind the dash. There is a page (35C-7) in the B body Assembly Manual that shows a very wide left hand side. This is only a drawing, but it is much wider that on page 35C9.4.

[blubomber]

There is no difference. The difference is in the wood grain panel in front of the passenger seat above the glove box.

Interesting about the airbag. I read once that GM was going to try air bags in Oldsmobiles around '67 but someone decided that safety wasn't going to sell to the whole thing was shelved.

Originally Posted by David Brown

I still would like to know the difference between the control units on the Bonneville vs. the Catalina & Executive. I kind of remember almost buying an NOS unit years ago, but it was the Cat/Exec unit, and by the picture on ebay, I think the woodgrained part was shorter and there was a wider space on the left side that must have gone behind the dash. There is a page (35C-7) in the B body Assembly Manual that shows a very wide left hand side. This is only a drawing, but it is much wider that on page 35C9.4.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by David Brown

I still would like to know the difference between the control units on the Bonneville vs. the Catalina & Executive. I kind of remember almost buying an NOS unit years ago, but it was the Cat/Exec unit, and by the picture on ebay, I think the woodgrained part was shorter and there was a wider space on the left side that must have gone behind the dash. There is a page (35C-7) in the B body Assembly Manual that shows a very wide left hand side. This is only a drawing, but it is much wider that on page 35C9.4.

Wondering out loud if any images would be shown in a "MOTORS" manual for 1969/70 ATC / non-ATC dashes?