[Skip Fix]

Tom was saying JUST the heads and intake will set you back $5000 for RAVs, Add a custom cam and headers and that's probably another $1200-1500 PLUS the short block.

The rare Z-11 409 heads and intakes run $5000-8000 IF you can find them.Not sure what the price for factory Buick Stage 2 heads are, but up there too.

[tom s]

Thats right,about 4 to 5 for heads and intake,1000 for custom headers and about 1000 for a custom RA V roller cam and kit.Seems like a custom roller cam is in the 600 range.BOP and Comp can do them.They are custom made from a blank billet.You have to supply the short block!Tom

[Stroker 455]

I guess I will stick with my 455.

[TUNNEL PORT]

I would think that if there were 25 or more orders. That the cams could be gotten for less. Because they would only set up once to make many over set up just to make one at a time. The cam grinders say its mostly in the set up. So you get rid of one of the biggest excuses.

So it could be posable to get all the heads at one time & have our specs ready before or shortly after heads are ready. Then do a group purchase on the cams. That may cut cost down drastically.

As for the headers, I can see them out for around $600 after the heads come out. Now that's the same ball park as our other headers for O & D-ports.

If the intake can be had for a reasonable price of 500 or less instead of 1400 before. Also perform well for street motors.

So if the heads come out for the reasonable price that was stated. Then it really wont be much more cost than a good E-head motor when starting with just a short block.

Ron

[tom s]

Ron,the expense on the cams right now is the lack of V pattern blanks.Now they have to do them from a blank and have them heat treated on a one off basis.IF and its a big IF 30 sets of heads are made then what cam grinder will do a V pattern,have them on hand and heat treated ready to grind.Tom

[TUNNEL PORT]

Im sure that a few month or more would belong enough for them to get 30 round blanks ready. Since its not a blank that is specific to RA V. I was told its a blank that has all round lobes & can be ground to any grind. Correct?

Ron

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

My post probably misled you. I was trying to say that a RA-V is the correct crate motor for a 69TA. Pontiac had part numbers for the complete motors as a 400 or 428.

Our 69 TA was not an original crate motor. It was a RA-IV block, RA-V crank, RA-V heads/intake/exhaust manifolds.

The cam wont be a problem. If we do these castings we will also be offering 3 crate motors complete. A 400/455/502. Assembled or unassembled. dynoed or undynoed.

I believe we need to go to a 60MM cam. The BOP 50MM is good, and I work with the guys at Bullet and Crane. Bullet has a CNC cam grinder so we can write a tape and save money.

I have been running alternate firing order cams anyway in my Super Stocker. So, to me it is no big deal. I will put the RA-V deal together so we can get economies to scale along with a RA-V crate motor.


Lynn

[Skip Fix]

Lynn doing the same firing order swap the Chevy boys are doing?

[Skip Fix]

One other question for all the engineer types here related to heads. Have water outlets out of both heads help equalize flow and temps any better than no flow out the way Pontiac blocks are designed(no head coolant holes in block up front). Or will water flow out before it absorbs the heat from the heads?

How do you Super Stockers plumb Lynn?

[JKGTO]

I have already spoken with Comp and Bullet cams. Comp wanted $780 and Bullet wanted $600 plus shipping. Bullet said 6 week turn around, any lift/duration I wanted. Jim

[the old one]

hello all- first off without owning and tinkering with RA V heads, a person really cannot judge them at all

I ran V heads on the street. they won't take full throttle with a mechanical secondary 4-barrel, below 4000 rpm- not enough velocity. To tame the V for the street in stock form, you need big cubic inches (at least a 455 bored .060"), and you must run a vacuum secondary carb- then the secondaries are opened when the engine can take it

Here's the flow numbers, at 28" on a Superflow 600- intake 320 cfm, exhaust 200 cfm-

intake port volume on my heads is 285 cc, with the stock airfoils in place over the pushrod tubes. Much less than most think- the ports really are not as big as they look if the airfoils are in place.

the V is really NOT a "giant" head like most think- with a Qjet it was quite driveable at part throttle

The V head IS and WAS the best flowing original Pontiac head ever made- and the one that will make the most HP of all the stock heads-

a heavily ported V Head of course, would flow more.

keep in mind the design was made for constant wide open throttle applications on the high banks of Talledega and Daytona in NASCAR- it's a copy of the Ford 427 tunnel port design- which won DAytona in 1967- beating Hemis, BBC's- it really was not intended to be a drag racing port design- it was designed to tool up to 7000 rpm in a Ford 427, and stay there all day for 2 hours, at nearly 200 mph

I'd love to see an improved aluminum version, along with newly made intakes and headers for the original iron V heads- I'd buy the manifolding myself- but stick with my original iron V heads

and I'd surely buy an aluminum V head over an aluminum D-port or E-head, there is something to be said for the Ram Air V mystique- rare, powerful, hard to find, valuable- that is what Pontiac V's were all about

[ponchobob]

Welcome to the board T.O.O.!!- I think with the new parts and market, the time has come for the "V" to make a comeback!! With high ex.ports and a few other mods (raised floors,easily removable-replacable pushrod tubes/airfoils), the design is FAR from obsolete, with MUCH more exotic historical "cachet" than some of the "mee too" chevy inspired suggestions offered up. Me and Jeff have dreamed for years about building a "V" engine for all out drag, IF the price could be dropped somewhat from the 5-7k$ it has been for years for the top-end.-Bob.

[Stroker 455]

I thought the Ram Air V program was also aimed at the 454 and the 427 Chevy.I bet if you used a 4.33 rear for that strip that would help.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

I have to agree with most of the statements made. RA-V's were not really street engines. They were racing engines. The 400 RA-V reportedly made 585HP. That is why they were mostly over the counter or crate engines/components.

However, we do have the ability through technology to make them fairly street-able. A Vacuum secondary Holley or Q-jet is one of those answers. I took my 69 TA to the Dream Cruize in Detroit, and drove it around all day. No problem. We had a 660 lift roller in it! Man was that fun!

Cams: A cam program will follow, and it will be way more economical than purchasing as a special.

Skip we have been running the "Warren Johnson" firing order. We picked up about 11HP, but haven’t decided if it was the grind, or the firing order or both. We got HP, so we really don’t care. lol

Remember that GM had Drag Racing in mind with the RA-V 400 and 428 motors. The short deck motors were for the other racing venues. However, the 366 short-deck became the standard for RA-V Pro Stock engines. What Old Timer stated was all true in the early development of Tunnel Port head technology with Ford. It is a great design.

I thought you guys might enjoy some old Pro Stock RA-V pictures see below.

Lynn

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

We havent really experienced any cooling problems. We have run the 16 V system which really keeps things moving. Picked up the cars ET, too. When you load up a 12V sytem with load, and no alternator, there isnt usually 12V left. 16V is awesome.

Another picture below.

[bmpmdf]

Thanks for the pictures Lynn. I still have the pages from the car magizine with the early 73 style front end taped to my closet door. That blue and silver was great looking. If I didn't like the flame job on my vega, it would get the blue and silver paint job as close as I could get it.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Here are my estimates for a RA-V crate motor.

Heads complete $2599 valves/springs/retainers
Intake $-500 single-4 or opt dual-4
RA-V cam $-375
RA-V headers $-500 (yes we are working on those)

So, unless you want to pay more, then this is our goal. Let us see how close we come!

I have some prelim prices on the crate motors, and it isnt as expensive as you might think for a 600HP plus crate engine that is capable of 800HP with cam porting and tuning.

Only thing negative I can think of is that nitrous/blower wont really be necessary. But, you nitrous guys will have a lot of fun trying I am sure.

Lynn

[Lloyd-TX]

Man, it's sounding better all the time, Lynn!

Sure would make for a nice engine swap into Marty P's 1970 GTO I just bought! You're V top end, IA2 aluminum block @ 4.31", a 4.5" arm - Whoopeeee.

525" of all aluminum, V-headed Pontiac power!

[tom s]

Lynn,Nunzi has V headers avail. for 1st gen birds so do the GTOs first!Tom

[khkiley1]

Is this "T.O.O" from http://www.theoldone.com ?

If so we have quite an addition to this board.

I recommend everyone talking about head design spend some time at his site.

K