[GTOLou]

With the 3.5" collectors - what is the size of the intermediate tube as compared to the 3" collector/1.75" headers.

Do the 1.75" headers have a smaller intermediate tube than the 2"+ headers??

[aronhk_md]

GTOLou.....dont want to say the wrong thing, I'll have to check with Ron. But something I'd like to say for all those out there itching for the bigger tube size. Make sure you REALLY need it. As mentioned, Roger Bolliger is running the 1.75" primary size on his 700 hp Butler engine in his 70 TA clone. IF.....and I say IF he is losing anything due to restriction...would a 30% increase in cross sectional area of the primaries take care of the problem? Good chance huh?

Thats what we are looking at stepping up from the 1.75" primaries to the 2" primaries.1.75 x 1.75 = 3.0625 square inches. For the larger set thats 2.0 x 2.0 = 4.0 square inches...........thats a 30% increase. A 2 1/8" primary would be 2.125 x 2.125 = 4.7813 square inches.........a 56% increase over the 1.75 tubes in cross sectional area!!!




On a separate note, Ron has not had time to post pics, but a set went out to Texas Dave last week. He should be getting them any day. Also, Gearbangers set just went out. Yeah Gearbanger!!! I am so glad to see you finally get your set. I hope they are perfect for you. I believe you have shown patience and wisdom, and I know Ron appreciates it because he's told me. Here is a pic of his set.



Now.....on to another issue I spoke about with Ron, and because he is busy I offered to help him out on this subject.

Weld quality and appearance.

1. External welds around primary/flange joints are not present on many production headers. On those where they are present they often do not circle the entire tube where they may interfere with a bolt hole. They are there to provide additional strength. This can be seen in the picture critter posted of the Tribal Tubes weld.......and can also be seen in the pics I am posting below of a Dougs header produced 6 years ago.
2. Weld appearance and quality of the Dougs header, and in the final pic a Mad Dog header on the red engine (had to put this in the next post down) can be compared to the welds Ron is producing that critter posted, and I will make a separate post below with more pics of Ron's Tribal Tubes. Personally I think his welds are at least as nice, if not better. You decide. Keep in mind Ron is the only one (that we are aware of) tig welding some of the joints where possible for an even cleaner appearance. Mad Dog uses mig only, and Doug's does as well to his latest knowledge. Tig welding gives a cleaner weld, but takes more time and adds to the cost of production. Keep in mind that the Dougs and Mad Dog headers in the pics have been coated, which can make them appear a little nicer. The tribal tubes in the pics in my next post have not yet been coated.
3. Ron cares about what he makes. If 8 years from now a weld breaks he'll fix it. Not likely, but will Dougs or Mad Dog do it? Want bungs welded in or some other custom touch.....will they do it? Just pointing out differences, which are in addition to all the other benefits these headers have in fit.

Now lastly.....and this is an important announcement.....Ron is going to be changing the STANDARD tubing he uses. Orders placed presently will be in the 14 gauge mild steel. Critter noted how solid they are. Its the first thing I noticed when I received mine. But the extra expense is significant, and Ron has not been charging more than you'd pay for a mass produced header like Dougs. So VERY shortly the standard Tri-Y header made by Tribal Tubes will be made in 16 gauge mild steel. The same as other header companies use. Flanges will remain the same. 14 gauge will be available as an option.

If anyone is on the fence about buying just be aware, the price is $450 for the 14 gauge Tri-Y as of today, and I cant pinpoint the day that is going to take effect, but wanted to let you know. I also dont know the option price for 14 gauge yet when that time comes.

Final note: Ron is better able to tell anyone who orders at this time when they will see their headers shipped. I know that may seem unfair to those guys who have been waiting and paid long ago. The honest truth is...it IS unfair. And Ron feels awful about it. But he needs to have new orders to buy what he needs to fill the old ones. To get new orders he has to deliver.

I personally do not have ANY interest financially or otherwise in Tribal Tubes. Like many of you I now have a dog back in the hunt......I sold my headers and gave the money back to Ron for new sets. I want to see him succeed for his sake, for your sake, and mine now. I know one of the biggest questions everyone has is.....where do I stand in the line...how many people are ahead of me? I cant answer that, and I'm not going to ask Ron. If I'm correct there were approximately 20 old orders from years ago.....and 6 new ones from the past year waiting to get made. As you can see by the posts in the last few weeks he is making progress on old and new. By the 3rd week in June I predict even better progress. Hang in there guys!

Pics of Dougs header welds and Mad Dog header welds (next post)

[aronhk_md]

Sorry about those pics guys, I know they arent the best and wound up too large. Not sure what went wrong. Best I could do. Heres the pic of the Mad Dog headers.



And now, some pics of Ron's Tribal Tubes welds

[Larry Navarro]

Ron tried to call me on Sunday but I was out for the evening. I'm sure the call had to do with my remarks posted earlier.
I pose this question, If Ron needs funds from a NEW order to complete headers for the OLD orders, how long would one have to wait to receive the headers that were just paid for? Obviously, it seems like 2-3 weeks. Is this correct Aron?

[roadrage david]

Originally Posted by aronhk_md

[SIZE="3"]Sorry about those pics guys, I know they arent the best and wound up too large. Not sure what went wrong. Best I could do. Heres the pic of the Mad Dog headers.

]

Aronhk nothing wrong with them pictures. love them black headers. and those welds look good nothing wrong with that..... chek your pm

[Ponchofan]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

I pose this question, If Ron needs funds from a NEW order to complete headers for the OLD orders, how long would one have to wait to receive the headers that were just paid for? Obviously, it seems like 2-3 weeks. Is this correct Aron?

What I've gotten from the comments made regarding new orders and old orders is that when someone places a brand new order for headers now, Ron takes the funds from that order and builds a set of headers for the customer that just placed the new order, and builds a set of headers for an old customer order. So, two sets of headers are being build per new order. The new buyer should only have a normal wait for hand-built headers, and a previous buyer (who could have been waiting as long as years for theirs) should get a set, too.

If I'm correct in what I believe is going on here, that's pretty impressive on Ron's part, in trying to make things right. I would have to think there's nothing left on the table regarding a profit. So, it's all labor on Ron's part to fulfill his obligations. You guys who've waited years definitely have a right to be a wits end for sure. But, it would appear Ron's stepped up as good as can be, and will eventually get ahead of this. Plus, I believe all the talk about there being something shady, or illegal would have to be silenced, because the current buyer would be getting what they paid for.

If I'm wrong in what I think is going on here, regarding payments and filled orders, forgive me. Then, I would look forward to being corrected in what I thought.

[gearbanger]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO!!!!!!!

Hmmmhmmm.....I mean, this is good...this is very good news.

[sphynx88]

thanks for the updates Aron and congrats gearbanger!

[SD421]

Originally Posted by gearbanger

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOO!!!!!!!

Hmmmhmmm.....I mean, this is good...this is very good news.

Right on!!! And to think YOUR headers were at one point in MY Goat!!!

Everytime I spoke to Ron I would ask him, "Whats up with Gearbangers headers"?

Looks like Watt can be trusted afterall unlike some who love to "piss into the wind"!!

Don

[gearbanger]

I have never seen anyone stick to a project through as much adversity as Ron has on this one. I guarantee you that my wife would be long gone if I had rode this project as far as he has. Hell she almost killed me for losing $700!

[GTOLou]

Originally Posted by Ponchofan

What I've gotten from the comments made regarding new orders and old orders is that when someone places a brand new order for headers now, Ron takes the funds from that order and builds a set of headers for the customer that just placed the new order, and builds a set of headers for an old customer order. So, two sets of headers are being build per new order. The new buyer should only have a normal wait for hand-built headers, and a previous buyer (who could have been waiting as long as years for theirs) should get a set, too.

If I'm correct in what I believe is going on here, that's pretty impressive on Ron's part, in trying to make things right. I would have to think there's nothing left on the table regarding a profit. So, it's all labor on Ron's part to fulfill his obligations. You guys who've waited years definitely have a right to be a wits end for sure. But, it would appear Ron's stepped up as good as can be, and will eventually get ahead of this. Plus, I believe all the talk about there being something shady, or illegal would have to be silenced, because the current buyer would be getting what they paid for.

If I'm wrong in what I think is going on here, regarding payments and filled orders, forgive me. Then, I would look forward to being corrected in what I thought.

Kinda what I've figured too.

I wonder how many "old" orders have to be filled??

[aronhk_md]

Larry.......saying a 2-3 week period between placing an order right now and delivery is a blanket statement I cant make. Every order is going to be slightly different, and I know of instances where an order was filled in 1 week. Best bet is to get a shipping date from Ron himself. It may depend on what supplies he has in stock at that moment, and since money is still squeaky tight for him...the date may vary. I will say he is busting his ass though trying. He is seriously obsessed.

Ponchofan........you are almost correct in that the original idea was to make 1 set of old for 1 set of new. However, the reality has ended a bit differently. For example, there have been times when a new order was placed, some of the money went to overhead, there was enough to build the new order set but only enough after that to maybe purchase a bit of supplies toward an old order. Its a sad fact that Ron has struggled financially without income to make this happen. He has sold every last pontiac part he owned, and sold off almost everything else he possibly could to keep afloat and keep trying. So while I'd like to say it is a 1:1 ratio on orders completed.....it isnt.

Rest assured though that very soon more old orders will be pouring out since he has much needed tooling and supplies just arrived and also enroute.

GTOLou.........the 2ndary size on the 2" primary headers is 2 1/4". Plenty big considering the next fired cylinder in that bank feeding into the same collector only has to push one other previously exhausted cylinder's gas ahead of it. ALSO, the 2" headers have approximately the same tube to road clearance....in other words your oil pan is more at danger than the tubes. The horzontal portion of the tubes under the car and the collector on the 2" set is approximately even with the frame WHEN ASSEMBLED WITH THE OVAL 3.5" collectors. Obviously the round 3.5" collectors on these bigger sets would hang a little lower, but there should still be pleanty of clearance even for super low cars.

Roadrage David.........will try to respond to your PM as soon as I get some dinner

[TUNNEL PORT]

Hey Aron, I think you missed a set that went out in that post, but it don't matter

I only logged in to PM gearbanger his tracking # because I don't have an email for him at the moment. My laptop is getting fixed (I hope) so I can get my info off it. So I wasn't planning on posting because I would obviously rather be working. Also I wasted to long today in town getting some more tooling designs dropped off at the machine shop to make for me. These are designs for tooling like the ones I posted elsewhere that is saving me about 20x the work time to make that one tedious part & save twice the material. Its only possible because of the help from some sales & the help from some one that isn't trying to rip me off like the last guy. At least the time I spent at the machine shop today isn't all wasted from not working. It will rewarded later many times over in savings I get from it. You sure dont have to be some engineer to make the necessary tools needed, just the funds to do so. Just wish it would have happened last year when I tried to get help from Tin Tigr.

Gearbanger, my parents didn't raise a quitter. Although some would have liked me to quit long ago I don't feel bad about it . My wife is a great woman that knows how much this means to me & supports my intentions. Even through all the technical problems I had & most importantly through all the bashing.

I have a tool coming that will take so many problems away soon that my new help has in rout. That tool & the added workers that will be hear in just a few weeks. All this will allow me to do what I had posted here on this board back when Tin Tigr was pretending to help.

So you guys have seen in the last few weeks what happens when I have both genuine help & sales to move forward. I cant do it with just one of those two things or neither one at all. Although a few pros have stated differently LOL. Someone even mentioned it cant take more than $100 to do a set? Ha, ya, sure. Not trying to be disrespectful but just the consumable materials cutting disks, polish pads welding materials & gases take up most of that. Without even being the actual material the header is made with like tubing, flanges & collectors. Every new tool I add helps reduce those cost & is what I have always strived for. Truth is the more you by the cheaper it gets period!! Thats true in most all industries & wouldn't think it needed to be pointed out. I buy just a little here & there which makes it cost 5-7 times more just for the tubing alone. So one set sold barely covered the cost of that set + an old one. Im fixing that cost ratio with each step I take to improve my tooling among other things in the process. After all I would have still been a crook in some eyes if I even mentioned I really need to do 2 to 1 or 3 to one at times just to pay operating costs, hmmm like rent. I am going to be getting quantity pricing because I have a huge order coming next moth from SoCal.

Im sure this post wasn't good enough to answer all the posts but I type real slow. I'm going back to work now & let everyone get back to the bash fest & conspiracy theories on where the money went. I really cant see why I don't post more........ So don't take it bad for the gaps

Gearbanger check your PM box

[77TA]

I ordered a set from Ron via Email and PAYPAL for a set of 2" headers with 3.5 oval collectors. Ron told me about three weeks to get them done. I felt that was reasonable.
I was worried I've not heard back email wise but I see he had a computer issue.
So that was probably why.

[aronhk_md]

He has had limited computer time with often no computer access at home. 77TA........I know for a fact he was waiting for supplies on your headers. Again, if in the past you sent him money by paypal that money had to clear paypal which takes 4-5 business days, then he had to order parts (the 3.5" oval collectors for example.....you are only receiving the 2nd set of 2" headers being made...), those parts have to arrive and then be assembled. So while a 3 week time period seems fairly long when you look at it that way, it would have possibly been less if they were the 1.75 headers.

[ERIC AULL]

Anyone suggest a set of headers to use on a motor , IAII block with E-heads???? Gotta move some exhaust .....will these tri-Y pipes help?????? Thanks, Eric

[aronhk_md]

Eric.....can you give some more info? displacement, head flow (approx), rpm range, expected use and in what car?

[77TA]

Yeah Ron said he would have to order the oval parts and that would take an extra week or so. I'm fine with the time line seemed very reasonable. I am just looking forward to not dragging anymore since I lowered the car !

1 3/4 would have probably been fine I just have 2" so I wanted to stay there..
Thanks for the feedback and update.

[big_oil]

@77TA. How many inches to the road is the lowest point of your car?

[77TA]

mmm.... not sure exactly and the car is up in the air on stands and probably will be for a while.... I can tell you the collectors will not let a baseball roll under them and a standard floor jack will not go under the K member... It's pretty low...

If these headers fit like I hear they do the frame or bellhousing ( lakewood) will be first to hit..

Found a couple pictures...
Its about 1" lower now.

Car as it set that day before the new springs lowered it about 1 inch.