[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply: See this, they have come a long way since H-O was in business, Hesster1977 has a point using a finer filter to capture the smaller particles that get through a common filter.





https://www.pgfilters.com/tech-tips/...ve-oil-filter/



Mikes Reply: "H-O Racing specialties recommended Oil filter for engines using H-O modified filter housing (bypass block off)

Lee Maxi Filter LF- 24 HP 2 stage", I think they mean, for Race Purposes only, here. JMO

Mike said: Hesster1977, I read all your articles, keep em coming...

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply: Here are some "Hurb Adams" Photos, owner of VSE today.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mikes Reply:

Hurb Adams first Vehicle he designed from the ground up and never finished until he was much older, good job Hurb, glad you finished what you started.

[Hesster1977]

Most of the Engine Oil Thermostats crack open at 180 degrees I think, and slowly allow the oil to begin too route thru the Oil Cooler. They will also maintain constant system pressure, prevent air pockets, and eliminate cold oil shock. They flow up to 20 gpm and are rated to 200 psi.

"A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees"

[Hesster1977]

Another (3) Part blog on "Pontiac Power for the Street"
Pontiac Mag, Aug '82, Part 3.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Hesster1977

Most of the Engine Oil Thermostats crack open at 180 degrees I think, and slowly allow the oil to begin too route thru the Oil Cooler. They will also maintain constant system pressure, prevent air pockets, and eliminate cold oil shock. They flow up to 20 gpm and are rated to 200 psi.

"A quality conventional motor oil will tolerate oil sump temperatures of up to 250 degrees, but starts breaking down over 275 degrees. The traditional approach is to try to hold oil temperatures between 230 and 260 degrees"

Mikes Reply: Hesster1977, you mentioned running 5/8" to 3/4" oil lines and to route them in parallel. I might have to undue my oil system some. I ran two coolers in series and I once used lines like you mentioned but since then they have been reduced in diameter, I have to go over the oil system after I finish with the Trans. rebuild. Thank you for the heads-up.

I once spoke to Hurb Adams on the phone during which he was traveling via an Airplane. I questioned him about the Suspension on my car that is made by him. Turns out that the Brakes on the front of my car were 11" diameter approx. and I needed to go up to 12" Rotors due to the fact that I had 2" Belltech drop Spindles on mine and the Calipers did not fit correctly over the existing Rotors. Hurb did not supply them but agreed to the same.

He spoke proudly of the Contessa he Manufactures today, a Vehicle he designed from the ground up just like Carral Shelby once did. Hurb likens the lines of his Vehicle to his wife's beautiful Body, Contessa means kept women in Italian if I remember the conversation. It was nice he took the time to speak with me, in fact I had to ask if it was, he or his son I was speaking with.

That kind of caused a silence that seemed longer than it was. Getting past that, he was very Informative and wanted to talk longer. Good luck to Herb Adams and we all thank him for his contribution to the Pontiacs of the past. Hurb your Contessa has as good of looks as a Jaguar, JMO.

Mike wants to know: If I run @ 195 degrees water Temp. , what is the expected Oil Temp. supposed to be? As I stated, I currently run two inline Oil coolers. I also run a Temp. actuated HD clutch Fan with Factory 19" Blades sealed off to the Shroud. Plus, I use an Electric Pusher Fan in front of Half the Radiator. Plus, I run an additional Side- kick Fan that I made from an extra Heater core.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Hesster1977

Another (3) Part blog on "Pontiac Power for the Street"
Pontiac Mag, Aug '82, Part 3.

Mikes Reply: Currently I run Tube Headers to 3" collectors, back is dual Exhaust to the Resonator out through dual Exhaust. No cross over and no Mufflers. Sounds good and seems to work fine, no complaints here.

Here are a few more Vehicles Hurb Adams built over the GM Pontiac and Race years:

[Hesster1977]

Love those pics of HErbs' cars. Always liked the Fire Am's - they looked so mean.

So some more informative stuff. Input welcome from readers.

To clarify on "Hesster1977, you mentioned running 5/8" to 3/4" oil lines and to route them in parallel".
The Stainless Hydraulic feed and return lines coming off my Oil Filter Adaptor at the Engine Block are 10AN, which is like 5/8". The rest of the plumbing lines at the 2x Dual Oil Filters adaptors under the front Fascia is 1/2". The Oil Cooler is also a Header Type and is 8AN = 1/2" also.

So IMO that 1/2" throughout is the minimum right diameter to assure flow w/o restriction. Many Coolers, like typical Trans Oil Coolers, are "Serpentine" style and 6AN = 3/8". A proper High Performance Engine Oil Cooler should be a Header style, and at least 8AN, or even 10 or 12AN (12AN is Overkill).
Some examples:
https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...0002&langId=-1

If engine oil does not get to at least 212 degrees (boiling temp of water) then any moisture that is present in the oil (from condensation, etc - not a coolant leak) will not get hot enough to evaporate. The HO article on Oil Coolers stated "If your Oil Temp is in the 160 - 240 degree range it is safe". Engine oil has an ideal running temperature of between ~220-240 degrees. If the Oil temp exceeds that, it needs auxiliary cooling via Cooler(s), Fan(s), etc. It is interesting that HO stated "For every 20 deg above 200 deg, the Oil Life is reduced by 50%". Maybe back in 1978 when the article was written, as Oil formulation has greatly evolved from then!

It is important where oil temps are measured in a engine. There are differences, for sure! The standard is the oil pan - it is the reference point for oil temp considerations, as the oil pan temp is the average of all the loads the oil sees. Measuring elsewhere can certainly get you a hotter temperature reading [or maybe cooler!], but we already know that this occurs.

But welding in a bung to the oil pan, or finding a sensor that replaces the drain plug can be a problem. It is easier of course to tap into the plug at the distributor, or tee off the pressure sensor. As HO stated, you could buy a Stewart Warner Sensor that could screw into the oil pan drain hole depending on thread size.

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=829117
https://www.stewartwarner.com/produc...erature-sender

[Hesster1977]

Road Test of the 1962 421 SD Catalina

[tom s]

Interesting that 421 "test" someone over time replaced the 62 intake with a highrise 63 and also put a pair of 750 CFM NASCAR AFBs and for some reason lost the 62 SD valve covers for late style valve covers.Tom

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Hesster1977

Road Test of the 1962 421 SD Catalina

Mikes Reply: Tom S., Put those Carbs. on the Tunnel Ram you're building and you have NASCAR 415 HP I would think?

Hurb Adams makes this Cobra replica and installs the Body over the Contessa's Frame, I believe, two for one deal. I suppose you can fit or adapt many Bodies to that Space age Multi-use Frame. The suspension and Brakes are also variably adaptable too.

Hesster1977, I have gained some good knowledge about an Oil system, I believe I use at least 1/2" lines in my system, but the inline system I now possess has to go. I am thinking of installing "Dual Doughnut Remote" using both fine and normal filters in a Parallel layout. This way one cooler is separate from the other. Each filter will flow through separate coolers too. Should I Increase the volume of the ID of my existing lines to 5/8" or 3/4"? I like the Idea of a S.W Gauge and sender unit. I think in my case it might be over kill to Thermostat the Oil Temp. because I don't Race this Vehicle. Since I have a roll bar in the Cab, it gives me a place to attach the Gauges such as Vacuum, Oil Temp. and maybe a third if I can think of one. My Vehicle uses the Factory Rally Gauge system and is well Instrumented. Oh, I can move the Trans. temp. Gauge out of my Console box where it is hard to read at best. I have seen complete Gauge installation kits that adhere to the Roll Bar online before.

[Hesster1977]

"Should I Increase the volume of the ID of my existing lines to 5/8" or 3/4"?

That kinda depends on the most restrictive element in the system.

So say if your coolers are 1/2" or 8AN, than any hose in the system should be at least 8AN. Your Coolers - What diameter are they, and what kind of design?
Of course you can use 10AN (5/8"), especially if you run a lot of line length.

Another element of restriction is fittings and bends (90 degrees). I prefer to use Stainless Braided lines, and AN fittings in the color of choice. The AN fittings have smooth bends and do away with hose clamps and potential leaks. Stuff looks good also, but $$$.

I stay away from "rubber" hose anywhere given heat and abrasion potentials.

https://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro...52578/10002/-1
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/100023/10002/-1

"I am thinking of installing "Dual Doughnut Remote" using both fine and normal filters in a Parallel layout."

Can you explain this further?
Like using (2) Dual's, or (2) singles? I like the idea of a high flow (normal) and fine flow filter combo. Like using a WIX 51515R as the high flow, and a WIX 51515 as the fine flow filter.
I run a split feed line parallel into each Dual's, and plumbed them back together into a common return line. Lot's of plumbing, and probably overkill in retrospect, but back then if Smokey Y, Herb A, or Nunzi recommended it, I did it where possible.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-25729
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-1221

[Hesster1977]

The 1963 Swiss Cheese Express. Wangers race car.
Aluminum Exhaust Manifolds that dripped molten aluminum, Aluminum Body Panels and Castings, and Plexiglass windows? A factory racing machine for sure.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Hesster1977

"Should I Increase the volume of the ID of my existing lines to 5/8" or 3/4"?

That kind of depends on the most restrictive element in the system.

So, say if your coolers are 1/2" or 8AN, then any hose in the system should be at least 8AN. Your Coolers - What diameter are they, and what kind of design?
Of course, you can use 10AN (5/8"), especially if you run a lot of line length.

Another element of restriction is fittings and bends (90 degrees). I prefer to use Stainless Braided lines, and AN fitting in the color of choice. The AN Fittings have smooth bends and do away with hose clamps and potential leaks. Stuff looks good also, but $$$.

I stay away from "rubber" hose anywhere given heat and abrasion potentials.

https://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro...52578/10002/-1
https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/100023/10002/-1


Mike said originally:
" I am thinking of installing "Dual Doughnut Remote" using both fine and normal filters in a Parallel layout."

Can you explain this further?
Like using (2) Dual's, or (2) singles? I like the idea of a high flow (normal) and fine flow filter combo. Like using a WIX 51515R as the high flow, and a WIX 51515 as the fine flow filter.
I run a split feed line parallel into each Dual's, and plumbed them back together into a common return line. Lots of plumbing, and probably overkill in retrospect, but back then if Smokey Y, Herb A, or Nunzi recommended it, I did it where possible.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-25729
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/prm-1221

Mike said originally:
"I am thinking of installing " Dual Doughnut Remote" using both Fine and Normal Filters in a Parallel layout."

Hesster1977, Reply to this statement:

"Can you explain this further?
Like using (2) Dual's, or (2) singles? I like the idea of a high flow (normal) and fine flow filter combo. Like using a WIX 51515R as the high flow, and a WIX 51515 as the fine flow filter."


Mikes Reply:
Start @ the Bottom of the Pontiac 428 ci Motor, there is the Remote adaptor @ the lower Block. Run say 3/4" hose from here to the "Dual Remote Oil adaptors". Use one Normal Oil Filter that is now adjacent to the Fine Oil Filter, by plugging off two correct stops in the Remote Filter unit, for this to work properly (as per instructions). Using 1/2" Hose line out to my two coolers (split one Hose to each cooler). Join the Hose lines back to one 3/4" Hose line after the Coolers. Return the 3/4" line back to the Engine Oil adaptor @ the base of the Engine and so Oil returns into the Motor. I will only use Two Filters "not" Four, as you did. However, I use 2 Coolers and each has a Copper Pipe added in line for extra Heat dissipation, acting as Four Coolers in reality. This set-up should increase the Volume of flow of Oil to and from the Engine?

Here are some more photos from my archives about Hurb Adams and his Fire-Am program from the past. His vision of the Trans-Am and Firebird, he also produced the Camaro version, but that will come soon enough.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Originally Posted by Hesster1977

The 1963 Swiss Cheese Express. Wangers race car.
Aluminum Exhaust Manifolds that dripped molten aluminum, Aluminum Body Panels and Castings, and Plexiglass windows? A factory racing machine for sure.

Good stories, even though we have all read this info. before, to read it in the Articles by writers in real time is almost like being there, keep up the stories Hesster1977. Thank you for sharing you prized Pontiac History with us. Mike out.

Mike here, some more Photos of Hurb Adams contribution to Pontiac History, one is the Camaro version "Chaverra", with the Porshe rear Wing added to it.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike has more, much More Hurb Adams Photos. Hurb if you are on PY, please chime in and explain some of these photos if you want.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike here:

Hurb Adams work continues today with VSE.

[TRADERMIKE 2012]

Mike has:

Hurb Adams Text Info. I have in my archives:

[Hesster1977]

Originally Posted by TRADERMIKE 2012

Mike said originally:
"I am thinking of installing " Dual Doughnut Remote" using both Fine and Normal Filters in a Parallel layout."

Hesster1977, Reply to this statement:

"Can you explain this further?
Like using (2) Dual's, or (2) singles? I like the idea of a high flow (normal) and fine flow filter combo. Like using a WIX 51515R as the high flow, and a WIX 51515 as the fine flow filter."


Mikes Reply:
Start @ the Bottom of the Pontiac 428 ci Motor, there is the Remote adaptor @ the lower Block. Run say 3/4" hose from here to the "Dual Remote Oil adaptors". Use one Normal Oil Filter that is now adjacent to the Fine Oil Filter, by plugging off two correct stops in the Remote Filter unit, for this to work properly (as per instructions). Using 1/2" Hose line out to my two coolers (split one Hose to each cooler). Join the Hose lines back to one 3/4" Hose line after the Coolers. Return the 3/4" line back to the Engine Oil adaptor @ the base of the Engine and so Oil returns into the Motor. I will only use Two Filters "not" Four, as you did. However, I use 2 Coolers and each has a Copper Pipe added in line for extra Heat dissipation, acting as Four Coolers in reality. This set-up should increase the Volume of flow of Oil to and from the Engine?

Here are some more photos from my archives about Hurb Adams and his Fire-Am program from the past. His vision of the Trans-Am and Firebird, he also produced the Camaro version, but that will come soon enough.

All that sounds good. Again - the coolers and "the copper pipe" should be at least 1/2" ID so as not to be restrictive.
I like the idea of a High Flow and Fine Filtration filter combo. You call this "Normal and Fine". As a example the WIX 51515R is a race filter, high flow, less filtration which yields the higher flow. Not recommended for daily driving. The WIX 51515 or 51515XP are street daily driver higher filtration filters, which flow less of course. So after considering your good idea of "high flow/fine filtration", I purchased a WIX 51515XP to replace one of my (4) filters, and that should provide better filtration. Kinda like a hybrid Bypass Oil Filtration set-up.

[Hesster1977]

Mike - in your post #234, the 4th attachment, "Collectors Volume II" - I don't have that booklet.
Would love to see what is in it!