Then and Now - Page 12 - PY Online Forums

Tripower455 · #1 02-02-2005, 09:28 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>well good luck to ya. ill be happy if i can stuff 3.73 gears in it and manage to get 10+ mpg. i guess it would help if i stay out of the gas more. but it sounds too good when the secondaries open up.

Greatest Of All Time <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Overdrive and a hydraulic roller will make it much less of a compromise, even with 4:11 gears.

My '66 is a weekend driver. It will see the strip once in a while, but driveability has always been a high priority. Between the .64 OD with the tremec and a hydraulic roller (hmmmmm sounds a lot like a new GTO) make low 12s (maybe even high 11's) become a lot more civilized. Mine even has AC and it won't see the high side of 2500 RPM at 80 mph with 4:11s.

red70goat · #2 01-19-2005, 10:12 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by TheWho:
I'm man and old enough to have an opinion on my own

I don't need to be brain washed by what others think of this car, or what some guy from GM has to say either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As am I. I wasn't brainwashed into disliking the looks of this car. I didn't like the looks of it when I logged onto the Pontiac website after seeing it on a TV commercial. All they showed in the commercial was the headlights. That actually looked cool. When I saw the rest of the car, it was very disappointing. I, like many others, were expecting much more than a fleet look so common among most manufacturers. As far as what GM execs say about it: I was proving a point using their own words that they put little or no thought into the styling of this car. Some people like the looks of this car, others don't. Neither is right or wrong. It's a matter of personal choice. As for me, I think it makes a great modern day musclecar but a lousy GTO.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #3 02-17-2005, 10:52 PM

didnt feel like reading about chevys answer to the imports. made me sick thinking about it.

Tripower455 · #4 02-11-2005, 08:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
is that why people use bronze dist gears ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup.

The bronze gears were "sacrificial", and I've heard that some folks got as little as 5000 miles on them before replacing, which is impractical for a daily driver. I went with a Crane HR with cast iron gear. I understand that BOP Eng. has a composite gear that will not wear with a billet crank.

Overall, the HR is not a bad way to get a bit more power/wider powerband without sacrificing driveability. They're not cheap though, by the time you buy the cam and lifters.

The guy that's putting my '66 together has the same cam in a '68 400 (with RA IV heads) and he is running in the mid 11's with it, and it idles like a taxi. Tons of low end torque as well.

With that cam, the Tremec and a 4:11 Moser 12 bolt, my GTO will be a no (or little) compromise driver and strip car. I'll bet it even gets decent (in the teens) mileage when not romped on.

RAIVJUDGE · #5 02-12-2005, 08:43 AM

First of all I am a die hard Pontiac guy ( older Pontiacs) The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? And for the guy who said I must not have driven both I did . The GTO at Davis Pontiac and the new 05 Mustang at Fred Beans in Doylestown. i am 6'2" and can keep my head in a more upright position in the backseat of the Mustang go figure, I know what the advertised specs say I sat in and drove both so please do not think my comments are because I like the Ford better they are an unbiased comparison.

And Rustang comments are pretty funny since most GTO's and F-bodies rotted away the same way as a Ford. BTW that Shelby is totally rust free , I have 300 pics of the rotisserie resto to prove it. Not many Poncho or Ford guys can claim that.

I more them anyone wanted the new 05 GTO to be the next car I bought but I can't. I like a car to be distictive the new GTO even the 05 is not, so what, they put some scoops on it and split the exhaust out the rear and it has 50 more hp you still have to look twice at it. At the used car auctions they are give away cars because no one wants them, kinda like the Fiero was.

The most recognizable American cars are the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro and Firebird. GM has a winner in the Corvette, they should spend their money and revamp and bring back either the Camaro or Firebird. The GTO and GTO Judge are recognized by true musclecar enthusiasts and are big dollar collectables. Most people know what a GTO is, they don't identify with it because they killed the name off in 74. If GM wanted to go after the BMW market with the Pontiac line they would have been better off using a number to name the new car ie: 346H.O. or 346H or something like that.

The reason to install a Paxton on a new Mustang is because that used to be an option on Shelby Mustangs, thought it would be retro to do one up like a modern Shelby.

Sorry for the rambling, and remember I never said the new GTO was a bad car it handles great and it has good acceleration, it just should'nt be called GTO, it will never be the Legend that the old cars were and still are.

judge_jury_executioner your avatar is funny. P*& on Imports. The new GTO is an import are you p&**ing on that as well.

If I just wanted to go fast I would buy a new Z06 or a CTS-V. The CTS-V is faster then a GTO and new Stang. Imagine that a 4 door Cadillac, fast with class.

Mr_GTO · #6 02-17-2005, 03:56 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i wondered why mitsu is offering their new 10 year 100,000 mile warranty (i know the 10 year part is right but i forgot how many miles) damn thats bad if the japs cant sell their cars to their people. im just going on a limb about the coblat considering the SS will be right around $20,000 maybe a bit more. for one reason how many $20,000 cars (brand new) have you seen that arent a hunk of s***? i was flipping thru a mag on break one day and they had it side by side with a cavalier. didnt read the article but i take it basically its a caviler with slight diffrences in the body. we all know those werent the greatest cars made. and finally since this is the first year in production it will take a few years to tweak out all the bugs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The cars aren't the same. Had you actually read the article you would have realized this.

3 Deuce 64 · #7 01-27-2005, 01:14 PM

Well There is no question what this is it's a then. to bad we couldn't have seen a now !!! But There is no Pontiac Motor Division

3 Deuce 64 · #8 01-29-2005, 11:14 PM

I think The new Cady is running with the simular drive line in one of the models and the ET s might be faster .that one I couldn't find the documentation so if you tell me I'm rong my feelings won't be hurt . We went and looked at the new GTs today Ford did a nice job on keeping the retro look of the 67 8 body style but I have to admit the interior in the GTO has it beat .But I still Love the new T Bird the did a great job with it out of my price range but If I had the $$ I would buy it over the GTO I am not saying it will out perform it because it won't it's just a sporty lx car but I would love to park one of them next to my 56 bird as I wanted to park an 04 GTO next to my 64 GTO but after actually comparing $$ for $$ I would say that the Ausy built SB half breed ah GTO gives you the biggest bang for your buck . There Chris I said it but it's still not a true blue but as close as we will ever get so I guess we are stuck with it if we want the name

Mr_GTO · #9 01-31-2005, 09:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Don Salisbury:
The Old ones are appreciating in value rather than depreciating .that new left over 04 is 8500 under list and now they are below the NADA trade in used value and still can't sell it

I may stop by and harass them some more today Tell them I might consider trading in my 69 Firebird and 5 K cash for it beacause it does ride a bit better than the bird <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please explain to me which new cars appreciate in value?

GTO Bruin · #10 01-20-2005, 02:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>The T-Bird is so exiting, Ford announced it will be discontinued due lack of sales! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My comments about the new T-Bird was not intended to claim an overall success of the car for Ford, but rather to point out how its heritage styling helped create excitement for its introduction. What Ford has done with it since is outside the scope of my original post.

Mr_GTO · #11 01-27-2005, 10:19 AM

Barry Kluczyk is a WRITER, not a employee of GM.

Damn some of you people are dumb as dirt.

IF Dave Hill says the LS1 is a "Chevy" or anyone from GM POwertrain, then I will say it. If you can find a quote from ANWHERE from them, please let me know ok?

RandyW · #12 01-20-2005, 12:50 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> I believe the key word there was "when" not now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No! The key word was "exitement". The New Bird never sold close to Ford's original projection, in fact unlike the '04 GTO, the T-Bird sold less than half of expected volume!

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #13 01-20-2005, 11:54 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Randy W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR> yeah go ahead and twist my words to try to make me look stupid and see what you get.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good results, so far!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

do people have to tlak really loud and really slow to you?

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #14 01-31-2005, 12:16 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rabon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tripower455:

The fuel rail covers. The seats.

so those diffrences makes it a pontiac ?

What is your point?...

What car, can you go buy right now, that shares _anything_ with the new GTO (other than a Corvette)? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what would you want to share with the new GTO ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that Tripower455 has answered your question, why don't you get back to my original question, of which you tried so hard to weasel out? Why, in your expert opinion, is the LS1 inferior to a vintage Pontiac engine? Once again, we'll wait to hear your great technical wisdom on the subject of what makes those older Pontiacs so awesome and the LS1 so horrible. Don't try to weasel out of it this time. Just answer the question because, if you don't, then you will be admitting that the LS1 is better. Tell us EXACTLY why the LS1 is not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what is this middle school again ? "if you dont answer my question then thats admitting that...." Cmon man grow up a little. and where did i say that the LS1 isnt a good engine? other then the fact that my roomie blew a LS1 in a 98 SS (this was a new car at the time and he wasnt my roomie then) and got a 97 T/A with a LT1 (2 years old at the time) and we tried to blow it and we couldnt. id take a origional pontiac engine over either a LT1/LS1. you want to talk about weaseling out of a question you never answered my question about what part of a new GTslow is pontiac (that means is only found in a pontiac) besides the badges?

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #15 01-22-2005, 02:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by projectfolly:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
you can read cant you? yeah go ahead and twist my words to try to make me look stupid and see what you get. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey,I just answered one of your questions. I twisted nothing. Or, are you trying to say that all your questions are rhetorical? Are you threating me personally now ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i dont know maybe you didnt understand my question. maybe you shuodl re read it. i said what car has ALL of the simmilarities mentioned of my 69 ? not just one there smart guy.

Tripower455 · #16 02-12-2005, 10:04 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by RAIVJUDGE:
First of all I am a die hard Pontiac guy ( older Pontiacs) The new ones all look the same and I believe that a car with the GTO nameplate should be distinctive looking and you should not have to squint at one coming down the street and say is it a Grand Am, GrandPrix, G6 ? And for the guy who said I must not have driven both I did . The GTO at Davis Pontiac and the new 05 Mustang at Fred Beans in Doylestown. i am 6'2" and can keep my head in a more upright position in the backseat of the Mustang go figure, I know what the advertised specs say I sat in and drove both so please do not think my comments are because I like the Ford better they are an unbiased comparison.

And Rustang comments are pretty funny since most GTO's and F-bodies rotted away the same way as a Ford. BTW that Shelby is totally rust free , I have 300 pics of the rotisserie resto to prove it. Not many Poncho or Ford guys can claim that.

I more them anyone wanted the new 05 GTO to be the next car I bought but I can't. I like a car to be distictive the new GTO even the 05 is not, so what, they put some scoops on it and split the exhaust out the rear and it has 50 more hp you still have to look twice at it. At the used car auctions they are give away cars because no one wants them, kinda like the Fiero was.

The most recognizable American cars are the Corvette, Mustang, Camaro and Firebird. GM has a winner in the Corvette, they should spend their money and revamp and bring back either the Camaro or Firebird. The GTO and GTO Judge are recognized by true musclecar enthusiasts and are big dollar collectables. Most people know what a GTO is, they don't identify with it because they killed the name off in 74. If GM wanted to go after the BMW market with the Pontiac line they would have been better off using a number to name the new car ie: 346H.O. or 346H or something like that.

The reason to install a Paxton on a new Mustang is because that used to be an option on Shelby Mustangs, thought it would be retro to do one up like a modern Shelby.

Sorry for the rambling, and remember I never said the new GTO was a bad car it handles great and it has good acceleration, it just should'nt be called GTO, it will never be the Legend that the old cars were and still are.

judge_jury_executioner your avatar is funny. P*& on Imports. The new GTO is an import are you p&**ing on that as well.

If I just wanted to go fast I would buy a new Z06 or a CTS-V. The CTS-V is faster then a GTO and new Stang. Imagine that a 4 door Cadillac, fast with class. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's funny is that a lot of us agree with 99% of this post.

You got lucky with your Shelby, rust wise. Old Rustangs are a bitch to repair if there is any kind of rot in the torque box area in the floors and there usually is. One of the many reasons I would probably never buy one. Fortunately, for the classic Mustang owner, you can buy just about the entire car out of a catalog. Much like the new ones, I LOVE the looks of the '68-70 Mustangs, especially the Shelbys, but that's about it. It would be nice if Ford used something other than water color paint on their vehicles as well. Oh, and for the company that pioneered the assembly line and parts interchange ability, Fords are surprisingly hard to buy parts for. I've owned 2 newer Ford vehicles, my '90 F-250, and my wife had an '89 Escort and 2 older trucks and they were all the same. Any time a part was needed, it was 3 trips to the parts store because depending on the time of day the car was made, it used a different, non interchangeable part. The o2 sensor for my truck is a good example. If I walk into a parts store, and tell them I need an o2 sensor for a '90 F-250, with all of the relevent engine/trans info, I will get the wrong part, guaranteed. They list several in the parts books for the same application, and NONE of them are the right one. I had to bring in the old one to get the one that fits my truck. The truck was bought new by me, so I know that it's only been changed once. For some reason, the truck came from the factory with F-350 spindles (a good thing IMHO) which makes getting spindle bearings and seals interesting if you don't know.

The Escort was the same way.

Overall, my truck has been great to me (192k and still going), but I've never had the parts issues with any other vehicles than Ford.

Have fun with the new rustang.........

Tripower455 · #17 02-09-2005, 12:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i heared that a hydraulic roller on the street is a bad idea ? i guess it dont matter if the springs i got can only handle .511 lift. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope not! The '66 will be my third car with an HR in it!

The only downside to a HR on a street car is the cost.

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #18 02-12-2005, 12:33 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
i was told that if you put a roller cam in a street car its not as durable as a hyd cam. but when i look at a summit catalog with cams for a LT1/LS1 i scratch my head and wonder why i was told that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple. Bad info in, bad info out. Read all the magazines you can. Lots of good information in those. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i would but every mag i look at says a diffrent story. the mustang books (dont read them but im going on a guess here) trash chevies the chevy mags trash mustangs and if you go in the middle like R&T,C&D, and all those whoever spends more advertising dollars gets the best review. it also seems like what they cover are in my mind luxury cars like BMW's,Audi's,... hell i dont know which mag to believe.

3 Deuce 64 · #19 01-23-2005, 11:52 PM

what is

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #20 01-22-2005, 03:59 PM

i like the 69 body style. i dont like the new gto because it has a chevy small block in it. it is supposed to be a "muscle" car if there are 4 cylinder imports that can hang with it or do better just not in the 1/4 mile but also 0-60 and in the skid pad. to me $35,000 ish is getting up there for a car. for the price the performance should be better. im not saying that the GTO is a total POS but gm can and should do better. theres plenty of positives you can say about it. i like the interrior. i like the true dual exhaust. but something that sounds as powerfull as it is should look the same. ill agree with the 13 second thing thats why low 13's inst impressive.