[giles]

I own a 71 TA that had original engine paint when I bought it years ago. I agree with 70RAIII with the exception of the wire loom. Mine had a pretty good paint coating.

I am not sure how they processed the painting on these engines. The intake was painted, but not on the bottom, so apparently it was installed. They must have used a mask to cover the heat stove. I agree with Bill in that the crossover shroud was silver. I don't think it was actually silver cad, just a cheap aluminized coating, but clear zinc is about the best way to reproduce it today.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by 1971455HO

First ,thanks 2many T/A's for this thread. If we can't have a forum, can't we just keep this thread going? This has been the most interesting 12 pages I've read in a while. Started off about the beloved 455 HO and somehow drifted over to the neighbors kids..Olds & Buick (we all respect them). Somebody fussed about it a little bit and we got back on track. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Mark Weymouth walked through the door and held most of us spellbound with his facts and figures. We all liked that. Thanks for your great contribution Mark. I've owned my '71 HO for a bunch of years and am just now getting the chance to put her back on the road. I understand the frustration of some thinking that those of us with round port cars some how snub those that don't have one. That's not true. At least not with me. Hell...I've borrowed the money to restore my car. Anyway, I really loved the pictures of all the engines. It seems that Pontiac blue instead of the metallic blue is the correct color for these engines, is that the consensus for 455 HO? Mine was built 09A. Thanks to everybody who put their 2 cents in. I'm happy to get to tag along and listen and learn. Thanks again 2manyT/A's.

Thanks for your contribution & we're GLAD to have another "old HO" on board.
As far as I know,the silver blue metallic was last used in 1970.

I think Giles has previously posted a picture here of HIS 71 455 HO engine & if anybodys is "correct",it WILL be HIS!

Here is a good reference guide for Pontiac engine paint,but be FORWARNED, not ALL of the listed manufacturers have accurate color matches.

http://fiedlerh.home.att.net/enginecolor.htm

[giles]

Thanks 2many! I took some extra effort in the engine paint area with my car...
I was not happy with the paint that was commonly available in over-the-counter spray cans. I painted the intake, valve covers, and front cover many years ago with Plasti-cote "Pontiac Blue" which is not terrible, but is too light and not greenish-aqua
enough for 71, 72 and early 73 paint for my liking.
My oil pan and flywheel still had pretty good coverage of original blue so I took those to Autobody & Color in Nashville and had them mix up some PPG Concept Urethane. I have a compressor and spray gun so using a mixed quart is no trouble. For those looking for
a rattle can solution the info referenced at the fiedlerh.home.att.net website is probably as good as it gets.
As you can see from the attached photos the color match is pretty good.
Nothing is perfect! I am not sure it is possible to know the exact formulation and tint of what was used in 1971. Alot of people claim that original paint has yellowed a bit over the years. This may be true, but I also recall that the commonly available rattle cans never looked right for 71 and 72 blue. I have owned several cars with original paint motors, as have several friends and the stuff I had mixed looks pretty good to my eye. It looks too green under flourescent light, but looks Ok under daylight. I don't think that any color will look right under all lighting.

[70RAlll]

I too have wrestled with the correct formulation on the 71 HO engine color. I had my PPG paint supplier mix 5 different shades of blue using my original valve covers.Wasn't happy with any of them. I bought OEM paints 71 blue (expensive $25ish/can) and I think they have it as close as you will find in a rattle can. Personally I have had good luck with their shades. I have heard many trash them, but mostly because of their high prices. I don't think you can go wrong using their 71 color.I'm sure some will disagree, but at least my can was as close as I had seen.

[70RAlll]

Originally Posted by giles

I own a 71 TA that had original engine paint when I bought it years ago. I agree with 70RAIII with the exception of the wire loom. Mine had a pretty good paint coating.

I am not sure how they processed the painting on these engines. The intake was painted, but not on the bottom, so apparently it was installed. They must have used a mask to cover the heat stove. I agree with Bill in that the crossover shroud was silver. I don't think it was actually silver cad, just a cheap aluminized coating, but clear zinc is about the best way to reproduce it today.

Actually Giles, the correct heat shield coating is what is called commercial white cadmium. It almost has a dusty silver color, sort of looks like an aluminized coating. But that is exactly what they used. Burbank Plating(they have a web site) is the only place still doing this as it was in the 70's. Clear cadmium(silver cad) is way too shiney for the crossovers. All of the firewall and dash screws were also white cadmium.

[necdb3]

70raIII,

I agree, OEM's color is very close to original ( as close as I've seen). It does seem to be more glossey than original though. Over all, it would be tough to beat. That's what I used on my 72.

Dave

[bossbirdta]

giles,now knowing that you had PPG mix up some DCC for engine paint,how is it holding up? especially around the exhaust ports. do you think its as durable as enamel?? i'm presuming its DCC if its concept.

[71HOT/A]

I mixed some Deltron base-coat to use on mine over 15 years ago, it has held up well with the area around the exhaust burning off over time but I think it lasts a little better than enamel. The trick is to keep the paint as thin as possible yet still cover around the exhaust.

[71HOT/A]

Hey guys, who else has an early 71 with some left over 70 parts, scoops, h/l bezels, guage bezels, seat back release knobs etc.

[68bird400HO]

My 12C built Van Nuys car has the chrome bezels. Also, of the two January built Norwood cars I have seen, both had chrome bezels.

[Rack776]

I have a question about the value of some parts-

1972 455 HO heads (7F6) Bare no springs or valves never machined other than a slight gasket match.
1972 455 HO aluminum Intake Manafold
1969 or 1970 (Not Sure off hand) Cast Iron heat crossover
1972 455 HO factory 5 blade Flex Fan

I own a 1975 455 Trans Am, I was planning to assemble a complete 1972ish 455 HO
to replace my #s matching smog slug 455 thats in the car now and make it a "real" H-O. (I would keep the original engine in storeage) I wanted to build an early 80's style Hot Rod out of the car (think H-O Racing or Nunzi's) using the parts that were the hot set up back then (no alum edelbrock heads)

Things are now tight money wise and I dont see being able to afford an H-O block
or crank in the near future, the low compression smog slug is also looking better & better
as I can run cheap 87 octane with no problem.

Would you guys keep 1/2 a motor and hope to finish it later in life or sell to someone
who needs the stuff instead if it sitting in my garage, I dont want to kick my self later
for getting rid of this stuff too cheap I dont think I'll ever find an other set for what I
paid for this stuff. Pontiac guys seem to be the worst as far as pack rats go.

Any advise would be appreciated, also ballpark prices would help so I dont screw myself
if I go to sell them.

Thanks, Jason

[speedshopmike]

has anyone ran a compression check on their fresh, stock 455HO?
if so, what's your average psi reading?
i'm trying to get a handle on the car i bought; it's making only 110psi.
no smoke, no bad noises, no blow-by, no gassy smell in the oil, and documents indicating a rebuild less then 10k miles ago - ie, my judgement says the motor's still internally happy.

it has an unknown aftermarket cam; i'm looking to see how much of my low result is in the 8:1 compression and how much may be related to a too-large or improperly set up cam.
given the round of badly marked timing sets that abounded for a while, i'm thinking there's a fundamental cam timing issue (it feels and acts retarded) crippling this HO.
former owner installed it dot to dot per usual practice, but if the dots are in the wrong place...
quick and accurate replies are appreciated.
thanks,
mike

[GonicGM]

Originally Posted by giles

As you can see from the attached photos the color match is pretty good.
Nothing is perfect! I am not sure it is possible to know the exact formulation and tint of what was used in 1971. Alot of people claim that original paint has yellowed a bit over the years.

I see way too many 'restored' pontiacs with engines painted in the 65 and older Pontiac blue that are 66 and newer cars. The 71 up is not the same as 65 and older. I've found that many individuals will mix new paint to match their used motors. I've found that all Pontiac 'blues' take on a green tint after being in service, mostly the 66-70 metallic and next the 71 up. The 65 and older seem to be affected least. I'm unsure if it is heat or otherwise that causes this discoloration. I'd try to match the color from a factory new image and not a 30+ year old motor that's been in service.

[1971455HO]

Jason, you have a good start on a much better performing engine right there. Keep the stuff you have. Your 1975 2 bolt engine is fine for upgrading to a stouter setup. It will easily handle up to 450hp with no problems. Depending on how you go with the rebuild, 425hp isn't hard to get. Get your heads to a good automotive machine shop (I would choose the one that builds all the race car engines in my hometown) and have them magged, to verify they're good. Heads and intake are the starting base point for performance. Don't let the machine shop talk you into cutting them to bring the C.R. up either. They're worth more uncut if you do decide to sell them. Unless that doesn't matter to you. I cut mine to bring them up to approximately 9:1 (111cc's stock, cut to 105cc's), but I don't care. I'm not selling. Use your 1975 engine to complete this set up. just store away the heads and intake you aren't using. Of course, you will need a set of round port exhaust manifolds or headers. All of this cost money...yeah I know, but you could probably pull it off for around $2,000.00 - $2500.00. Heads with new valves & springs, new .030 pistons, .030 over bore, machine shop cleans and assembles pistons to rods and preps everything else. New cam ,lifters, timing chain,etc, gasket kit, you get the idea. I might be wrong about the price, it's been a while since I've done anything. I'm not including if your trans needs attention. I wouldn't sell them. if your on a budget and most of us are, You got 'em.....use 'em. If you decide to do it, these guys here wont steer you wrong, ask them about their combinations. Speed = Money, but there's other ways to get there too. Good Luck.

[turbo]

I totally agree. You would regret selling off the HO parts later on. Use them and enjoy your car.

[Rack776]

Thanks for the advise guys!
It was my gut feeling to keep the HO parts anyway! They are too cool to loose.
I would only build a mild motor with them as any way.
I am too scared to hurt my #s matching block or ruin the 7F6 heads.

Any idea on value if the heads check out to be OK?
I dont see these parts trade hands very often to get a good idea.

I figured arround $1,800 to $2,000 for the heads, intake, crossover & fan.
Am I way too high or low in price?
If I ever decide to sell I'd give this forum 1st shot at them.

Thanks for all the help guys, Jason

[PB]

Jason,
I'll add another vote to keep em. I know it's tempting to sell in financial constraints, but like you said, You'll never get them again at the price you got em at. I've been doing the same thing you are doing over the last 7 years and finally have a complete 1972 455 HO YB motor. Just missing the numbers carb, but I am not concerned with that as it is too $$$ and not necessary when not a numbers car. I am building a car I want and it will Be factory correct as it would have come off the assembly line. Only way to know it wasn't, is to view the VIN. That's the fun of the hobby for me. Also, the fun of hunting down this stuff over the years. SAVE FOR LATER! A HO block will crop up when you least expect it, and probably not able cough up the funds, but if you are like me, you are able to scrounge up the dinero. If not, wait, seems like everytime I think, man, I better buy that now, I may never see another one, another one shows up later. Just be patient. That's why I love ebay. I have access to parts I never would have had access to, and they are shipped to my door!

I'd say 2-2500 alone for the heads, 500-700 for intake and crossover. Fan...is it an AC fan or manual fan?

[1971WARBIRD]

i think you are a little low on the price.it's not only what they are selling for today,but what you will have to pay if you want to replace.

good heads from 1800-2500
intake and crossover up to 750
fan no idea

if you don't need the money but still want to sell,start around 3000-3250.if someone really needs or wants it they will make an offer then you can go from there.if you start at 2000,you can never go back up.this helps keep all the tire kickers out.

my problem,when i sell things i say 2000 and that is what i want and need for it.i figure out what the lowest price is i feel good at,but then people want to bargin from there,need to change the way i do things,or just keep it all.reason i mostly sell to friends and people i know.

[Rack776]

Originally Posted by 1971WARBIRD

i think you are a little low on the price.it's not only what they are selling for today,but what you will have to pay if you want to replace.

good heads from 1800-2500
intake and crossover up to 750
fan no idea

if you don't need the money but still want to sell,start around 3000-3250.if someone really needs or wants it they will make an offer then you can go from there.if you start at 2000,you can never go back up.this helps keep all the tire kickers out.

my problem,when i sell things i say 2000 and that is what i want and need for it.i figure out what the lowest price is i feel good at,but then people want to bargin from there,need to change the way i do things,or just keep it all.reason i mostly sell to friends and people i know.

Yeah, I know that feeling, My wife calls swapping parts the "Red Neck Stock Market"
Cause I always Buy High and Sell Low! It seams like I always pay what someone
is asking cause I dont want to loose out, but when I sell either nobodys interested
or I end up comming down in price to compromise on shipping. I have a tendancy
to find the guys in Canada, England, Ect. who are the only ones who want what I have
but they are too far away to ship to or trade with
I think being a Pack Rat is the Way to Go!

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

has anyone ran a compression check on their fresh, stock 455HO?
if so, what's your average psi reading?
i'm trying to get a handle on the car i bought; it's making only 110psi.
no smoke, no bad noises, no blow-by, no gassy smell in the oil, and documents indicating a rebuild less then 10k miles ago - ie, my judgement says the motor's still internally happy.

it has an unknown aftermarket cam; i'm looking to see how much of my low result is in the 8:1 compression and how much may be related to a too-large or improperly set up cam.
given the round of badly marked timing sets that abounded for a while, i'm thinking there's a fundamental cam timing issue (it feels and acts retarded) crippling this HO.
former owner installed it dot to dot per usual practice, but if the dots are in the wrong place...
quick and accurate replies are appreciated.
thanks,
mike

Just off the top of my head,I'd say you SHOULD be ringing up around 150 lbs per hole.
The ? mark cam would be my first guess.
If you're not sure who it's "parents" are,I toss in an "068" or "744" if you've got a stick.
Either of those cams should make you happy.