[mike leech]

With all the tadoo in the last thread we decided to do a brief build thread witha few pics to highlight what it does and maybe does not require to make a bunch of power. The info provided will be general in nature and we of course will not entertain antagonistic questions nor intentionally distracting posts.

Some have implyed its all luck or whatever. The deal is theres some planning in execution, but as soon as we dyno/find it in the car we have an idea what the engine wants next. For the record we made 1205 @8500 rpm on the last go. We had an idea then what we needed to do to mke more. Rpm is a NA engines best friend when lookin for more. Our cuurent goal is 1240-50 hp. There is always the chance of goals not being met.....we are fairly confident we will meet them.

We will go through the components required/ sometimes not. More to follow as it will go together over the next few days and we will dyno shortly.

[60man]

Carry on Mike.
Be following thread.

[PAUL K]

EHTTFMF

[Tom Vaught]

1205 @8500 rpm is a nice number to start with, LOL! Good job, Mike and Team members.

Carry On!

Tom V.

[Elarson]

Thanks for being willing to share data and ideas. Some will appreciate, some will not, open-minded folks will benefit.

Eric

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Thanks for being willing to share data and ideas. Some will appreciate, some will not, open-minded folks will benefit.

Eric

We all already know who the guys are that will have nothing good to say. This thread is not for them.

Its to share a bit about what a guy is looking at if he wants to try and build something like this. We didn't intend on getting here in the beginning. It just sorta happened as we exploited obvious opportunities to improve what we currently had. we learned a few things along the way. Some of them the hard way.

[JSPONT]

Subscribed Thanks Mike

[jm455ho]

Thumbs up for your willingness to share, and best of luck.

[Aaron Quinton]

Mike,

First congrats on great power achievement with your package, well done on cracking 1200 hp! And thanks for sharing any info you have sir.

Thanks,

Aaron

[RAMAIR RICK]

Mike, thanks greatly for starting this thread. This will help many people in the Pontiac Community/Hobby see the required 'Price of entry' to 1st just to get in the Ball Park, with the Parts and the Combination as a whole, then expanding on that foundation to then go to the next level 2.2hp per CI and beyond.

[GTO Dan]

That is really cool! Both that you already made over 1200 hp NA and the fact that you are willing to share some. Thanks and I look forward to hearing more.

[rexs73gto]

I'm in the building a new engine stage. I have a 469, 455 .60 over with the Ross/Butler pistons & Eagle H-beam rods. So far when they get the pistons the block will be matched to the pistons & decked so I have the pistons at 10ths in the hole. I have E-heads (round port) & there has nothing been done to them yet. The crank is a new Eagle cast 3.25 inch. I'm hoping now that with the info you will be posting I can make a little bit more HP then when I had the SRP .30 pistons in it with a Crane Blue Print RA IV cam. It made 523 HP at the crank with those pistons & cam with the Performance RPM intake & RA exhaust manifolds & a Pertronix ign. with a tricked Q-Jet. I hope watching this thread I'll get some great useful info to make even more.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

I'm in the building a new engine stage. I have a 469, 455 .60 over with the Ross/Butler pistons & Eagle H-beam rods. So far when they get the pistons the block will be matched to the pistons & decked so I have the pistons at 10ths in the hole. I have E-heads (round port) & there has nothing been done to them yet. The crank is a new Eagle cast 3.25 inch. I'm hoping now that with the info you will be posting I can make a little bit more HP then when I had the SRP .30 pistons in it with a Crane Blue Print RA IV cam. It made 523 HP at the crank with those pistons & cam with the Performance RPM intake & RA exhaust manifolds & a Pertronix ign. with a tricked Q-Jet. I hope watching this thread I'll get some great useful info to make even more.

Thats a great combo and results so far. Great job!

[Half-Inch Stud]

Tough to top the Cast crank pursuit like Vin63 did. huh

1200 HP NA will be an excellent pursuit. Can you cite the RPM for HP, and maximum RPM?

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Tough to top the Cast crank pursuit like Vin63 did. huh

1200 HP NA will be an excellent pursuit. Can you cite the RPM for HP, and maximum RPM?

Not sure what your trying to compare a boosted aplication to a naturally aspirated one. When we dyno it will be the baddest naturally aspirated Pontiac engine out there. I know theres one coming that will make more. But we have a plan for that too. There will be another thread before the year is out


It made 1205 at 8500. And held on to power past peak we ran it to 8800 on dyno and it only lost a few.

To make our target we will need to increase torque slightly and make it at a slightly higher rpm. I expect to peak at 8600 for power And 7700 for torque. If we do that the 1250 should be no trouble. We NEED rpm. Especially With this little head. We anticipate a 9000 RPM shift point. The goal would be to keep this engine from dropping below 8000 RPM on shift recovery.

I know this makes most people turn inside out. But if you want to make big power you got to get over the RPM. It is an absolute must. Horsepower is calculated, torque times rpm divided by 5250. The farther away from 5250 you are with the same torque, the more horsepower you make.

[Mikes455Wagon]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Horsepower is calculated, torque times rpm divided by 5250. The farther away from 5250 you are with the same torque, the more horsepower you make.

We have some "common core" math people here that might not get that Mike.

1205 is pretty dang stout and if your predicting more, it just shows what can be done with careful planning, trial, and reflecting on results good and bad. I look forward to the read and good luck with the next step in the game! Thanks for sharing.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Not sure what your trying to compare a boosted aplication to a naturally aspirated one. When we dyno it will be the baddest naturally aspirated Pontiac engine out there. I know theres one coming that will make more. But we have a plan for that too. There will be another thread before the year is out


It made 1205 at 8500. And held on to power past peak we ran it to 8800 on dyno and it only lost a few.

To make our target we will need to increase torque slightly and make it at a slightly higher rpm. I expect to peak at 8600 for power And 7700 for torque. If we do that the 1250 should be no trouble. We NEED rpm. Especially With this little head. We anticipate a 9000 RPM shift point. The goal would be to keep this engine from dropping below 8000 RPM on shift recovery.

I know this makes most people turn inside out. But if you want to make big power you got to get over the RPM. It is an absolute must. Horsepower is calculated, torque times rpm divided by 5250. The farther away from 5250 you are with the same torque, the more horsepower you make.

Hi Mike,
I know you have been waiting for me to post.

Very nice job. Great numbers.

Another advantage of moving the torque up in the RPM range is the ability to run more rear end gear which gives greater torque multiplication.

If you get your HP peak to 8600 and it holds on like you say, I think you will be leaving some et on the table if you only shift at 9000.

Stan

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Hi Mike,
I know you have been waiting for me to post.

Very nice job. Great numbers.

Another advantage of moving the torque up in the RPM range is the ability to run more rear end gear which gives greater torque multiplication.

If you get your HP peak to 8600 and it holds on like you say, I think you will be leaving some et on the table if you only shift at 9000.

Stan

So what is the shift number Stan? I know what my number would be for the shift.

Tom V.

[Aaron Quinton]

The shift RPM maximizes the area under the power curve between gear ranges. The shift rpm changes depending on what ranges are in the trans to maximize the area under the power curve. That is physics and what carries the day, Stan knows that. I really wished we could all get past the childish bs and share some real information within the Pontiac community. It really wears me down and I understand why some capable people avoid the place like the plague. And is the key reason I don't participate much here. I suspect others feel the same.

And Mike thanks again for sharing some real information, it's appreciated! Share some real info with Stan and utilize his math abilities and I suspect we all could learn something. Math and physics don't lye and Stan has it under control. It takes real world experience from the best to calibrate assumptions in the math. Crap in is crap out. There are guys here that can provide good input to the rest. Stan has demonstrated a good ability of math and physics. I think a lot of folks could benefit from partnering with this capability.

PPTTFMF!

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

So what is the shift number Stan? I know what my number would be for the shift.

Tom V.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

If you get your HP peak to 8600 and it holds on like you say, I think you will be leaving some et on the table if you only shift at 9000.

Stan

True. Unfortunately we never had a good outing in the car. The runs I made were shifted at 83 to 8500. There's more left.

Trying to control piston speed some. And there's no sense beating the snot out of it when the car was obviously not performing correctly on the starting line. We realize we need to shift higher. We just need a little time.