Nothing's changed! - Page 15 - PY Online Forums

Mr_GTO · #**281** 12-14-2004, 12:15 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:

I wonder if Aussie's bitched when the new Monaro did not look like the old Monaro?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who cares what the Aussies think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lots of comparisons there. It is lost on you, then again, everything is lost on you.

Nickv · #**282** 12-14-2004, 12:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:

I wonder if Aussie's bitched when the new Monaro did not look like the old Monaro?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who cares what the Aussies think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you missed the whole point of my post.

Goat luver · #**283** 12-14-2004, 05:37 PM

Don't y'all just love watching red70goat aka whatza monara aka "mr I know nothing about cars" making an ass of himself.
I know I do :-)
I would like to sincerly thank him for making me laugh out loud everytime I read one of his "wonderful contributions" to the forum.

A thousand thanks to you red70goat. Please keep up the good work.

red70goat · #**284** 12-14-2004, 08:35 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
Don't y'all just love watching red70goat aka whatza monara aka "mr I know nothing about cars" making an ass of himself.
I know I do :-)
I would like to sincerly thank him for making me laugh out loud everytime I read one of his "wonderful contributions" to the forum.

A thousand thanks to you red70goat. Please keep up the good work.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Thank you Ozz! You people in the GM Monaro Glee Club keep proving my point time and time again. Since I've been voicing my opposition to the GM Monaro I've been criticized for the cars I drive, for the car I don't drive, for not keeping it in "showroom condition" after 30+ years of daily driving (I guess it doesn't matter after 30 winters it still runs like a top, is all original and arrow straight), derogatory comments about my profession, my family, my supposed lack of knowledge about cars (still haven't figured out where you're coming on that one...I guess you have to win awards or something to be an "expert"

)Tell ya' what: I'll dump a bunch of money into my 70, get a few awards, claim Bob Lutz as a my personal Savior and Hero and then I'll be a bonafide "expert" like ya' all in the GM Monaro Glee Club. fiddly fart. BTW: Name me one post where I made any mention to anybody on this forum of their family, what they do professionally, the condition of their GTO and how and when they should drive it. Nearly all of my posts have been aimed at GMs lack of effort in reviving the GTO.

red70goat · #**285** 12-14-2004, 08:39 PM

" Forgive Bob Lutz, For he knows not what they want".

red70goat · #**286** 12-14-2004, 08:53 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:

I wonder if Aussie's bitched when the new Monaro did not look like the old Monaro?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who cares what the Aussies think? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lots of comparisons there. It is lost on you, then again, everything is lost on you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, having a GTO compared to a Monaro is doing wonders for Pontiacs' bottom line.

Goat luver · #**287** 12-14-2004, 08:58 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
" Forgive Bob Lutz, For he knows not what they want". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Forgive red70goat for he can't make up his mind what he wants"

judge_jury_executioner_69 · #**288** 12-14-2004, 11:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Are those's Pontiac's in the foreground with those rally II's and Snowflake wheels? No they are classic Monaro's.

Pontiac and Holden have alot in common it seems.

http://www.monaroclubvic.asn.au/Even...4/IMG_4361.JPG

http://www.monaroclubvic.asn.au/Even...4/IMG_4365.JPG

http://www.monaroclubvic.asn.au/Even...4/IMG_4360.JPG

I wonder if Aussie's bitched when the new Monaro did not look like the old Monaro? I doubt it.

Those are pretty cools cars. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

so in the 70's the monaro's were trying to look like a real pontiac but now pontiacs are trying to look like monaro's ? amazing what 30 +/- years will do.

RandyW · #**289** 12-15-2004, 05:48 AM

It has begun to appear to me that most owners of previous GTO's (I'Ve owned 2, myself and I'm 52), really don't like the idea of there being any new GTO, regardless of what it was! Unlike Mustangs and other cars that have more or less, been built all along, they have had an 'exclusive' car for thirty years. Now they don't like the idea of more cars called GTO being built. Somehow they feel it takes the edge off the exclusivity of thier old car. I re-read a bunch of posts on this forum, that seems to be the common thread, the haters either own an old one or are dreaming of owning one, except for the Ford troll, of course.

The Champ · #**290** 12-15-2004, 06:57 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> Not intentional, but I'll give you that one. Caddy Limo...Lincoln...whatever. Like I said before,the only web page I looked at of yours was the '64. I knew you had a Chevy and something that had an "L" in it.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, that might be plausible, except for the fact when you made that post you were quoting one of mine. My signature on every post lists the three cars.

And Cadillac also has a "C" in it, so why didn't you say Chevy or Chrysler. It also has an "A" in it, maybe you should have said Audi. I just noticed that it also has a "D" in it - why didn't you say Duesenberg...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat: As far as your awards: From what I've seen of your '64 any award recieved was certainly well deserved. That doesn't make you any more of an expert or a "car guy" than the rest of us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As already posted, the awards are not important. Driving the car is. My car is nothing more than a very nice driver.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat: Info. on production, etc. is easily found on Musclecarclub.com or any other number of websites. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, you've proved that by trying to convince us that the "Jury" was a GTO without the "Endura Option"...

You were wrong then, and despite bringing up a 350 ci 2bbl powered LeMans into the picture, you are still wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:I know plenty of rich pricks who pay somebody 40-50k to restore a musclecar. Possession doesn't make them experts. I happen to be one of those rich pricks who will be throwing 40k or so at somebody to restore my Goat. When that happens, I will not be heralding myself as any more of a car guy or expert than the guy who takes pride in his clean '71 LeMans or whatever it may be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I'll agree with your being one of those rich pricks...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>>1) I would never compare a modern day GTO (when Pontiac gets around to making one) to a Mustang as you frequently do. They are not in the same class. A fact you frequently ignore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many times have you referenced the retro styling of the Mustang?

I agree they aren't in the same class, because the Mustang has never compared to the GTO, old or new.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>> When my 70 is ready to go it will be driven on a nearly daily basis, except in winter. I will not drive it until then. At 278,000 miles I do not want to put any more wear and tear on it until the "restoration" is done. The road salt here chews up older cars like candy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who asked you to drive your car in winter in road salt. Summertime cruising isn't going to add any significant wear and tear to the body of your 278,000 mile GTO (you have already told us that it runs well - although I don't understand how you know this because you don't drive it...).

red70goat · #**291** 12-15-2004, 07:09 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by judge_jury_executioner_69:
[QUOTE]

so in the 70's the monaro's were trying to look like a real pontiac but now pontiacs are trying to look like monaro's ? amazing what 30 +/- years will do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Built on a Monaro chassis with a "look that is not uncommon in GMs lower level cars such as the TransAm or Cavalier"...Joe Ivers, Executive Director of Quality and Customer Satisfaction, JD Power and Associates : " Are GTO Weak Sales a Result of Flat Styling? "

red70goat · #**292** 12-15-2004, 07:18 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by ozzy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
" Forgive Bob Lutz, For he knows not what they want". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Forgive red70goat for he can't make up his mind what he wants" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A modern day GTO that is recognizable as a GTO, not a carbon copied jellybean. This can be easily accomplished without the use of the worn practice of using non-functional hood scoops and tacky spoilers. Performace wise, the GM Monaro is right on the money.

Mr_GTO · #**293** 12-15-2004, 07:27 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

A modern day GTO that is recognizable as a GTO, not a carbon copied jellybean. This can be easily accomplished without the use of the worn practice of using non-functional hood scoops and tacky spoilers. Performace wise, the GM Monaro is right on the money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, so now you know how cars are designed, certified and built uh? Why aren't you working for GM if it is so freaking easy?

Fact of the matter is you have ZERO clue about what it takes to get a car from paper to dealer. ZERO.

Look at how long it is taking the Solstice to get to dealers. 4 year process is the norm when working from a clean sheet of paper. GM with engineering input from Holden started on ZETA chasis last year, 2003. Know when the release of those cars is starting with the GTO?

2007.

red70goat · #**294** 12-15-2004, 07:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by The Champ:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> Not intentional, but I'll give you that one. Caddy Limo...Lincoln...whatever. Like I said before,the only web page I looked at of yours was the '64. I knew you had a Chevy and something that had an "L" in it.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"You know, that might be plausible, except for the fact when you made that post you were quoting one of mine. My signature on every post lists the three cars."

>>> You got me there Champ. Didn't mean bag on your Caddy Limo by calling it a Lincoln. Like I said, it wasn't intentional. Caddys are much cooler.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat: As far as your awards: From what I've seen of your '64 any award recieved was certainly well deserved. That doesn't make you any more of an expert or a "car guy" than the rest of us. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As already posted, the awards are not important. Driving the car is. My car is nothing more than a very nice driver.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat: Info. on production, etc. is easily found on Musclecarclub.com or any other number of websites. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"....by trying to convince us that the "Jury" was a GTO "...

>>> I don't where you got that idea. I said from the beginning that the "Jury" was a LeMans that had been outfitted from a dealer and marketed as a "Poor Mans GTO". Go back and check my original post on the "Jury".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:I know plenty of rich pricks who pay somebody 40-50k to restore a musclecar. Possession doesn't make them experts. I happen to be one of those rich pricks who will be throwing 40k or so at somebody to restore my Goat. When that happens, I will not be heralding myself as any more of a car guy or expert than the guy who takes pride in his clean '71 LeMans or whatever it may be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Well, I'll agree with your being one of those rich pricks..."
>>> Thank you. I've worked hard to attain that lofty status.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>>1) I would never compare a modern day GTO (when Pontiac gets around to making one) to a Mustang as you frequently do. They are not in the same class. A fact you frequently ignore. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"How many times have you referenced the retro styling of the Mustang?"

>>> Many times, because I don't consider the GM Monaro to be a GTO. Therefor, no comparison.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>> When my 70 is ready to go it will be driven on a nearly daily basis, except in winter. I will not drive it until then. At 278,000 miles I do not want to put any more wear and tear on it until the "restoration" is done. The road salt here chews up older cars like candy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"....Summertime cruising isn't going to add any significant wear and tear to the body of your 278,000 mile GTO <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

>>>>Well, with all the feedback I've had on this subject I'm starting to think maybe I should hit it with a buffer, armourall the vinyl top and do just that.

red70goat · #**295** 12-15-2004, 07:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:

A modern day GTO that is recognizable as a GTO, not a carbon copied jellybean. This can be easily accomplished without the use of the worn practice of using non-functional hood scoops and tacky spoilers. Performace wise, the GM Monaro is right on the money. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Look at how long it is taking the Solstice to get to dealers. 4 year process is the norm when working from a clean sheet of paper.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No argument there: 4 years for the C6, 3 years for the 05 Stang. 17 months for the GM Monaro. GM didn't start with a clean sheet of paper.

Mr_GTO · #**296** 12-15-2004, 07:54 AM

Right, so no GTO or any RWD car for Pontiac for 5 years would have been ok with you uh?

red70goat · #**297** 12-15-2004, 08:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Right, so no GTO or any RWD car for Pontiac for 5 years would have been ok with you uh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have rather waited until they got it right then compromise. Unless Pontiac does start over with a clean sheet I seriously doubt we'll see a GTO in 2007.

Mr_GTO · #**298** 12-15-2004, 08:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Right, so no GTO or any RWD car for Pontiac for 5 years would have been ok with you uh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have rather waited until they got it right then compromise. Unless Pontiac does start over with a clean sheet I seriously doubt we'll see a GTO in 2007. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

funny, lots of people like it. It will sell out the production run, which will be over 15K units. If you don't oh well. Don't buy one. And FYI, it has been long known that Pontiac and Holden are working on a brand new car and a brand new chasis that will be built here. And it will be in showrooms in Sept. 2006

The Champ · #**299** 12-15-2004, 08:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
>>> I don't where you got that idea. I said from the beginning that the "Jury" was a LeMans that had been outfitted from a dealer and marketed as a "Poor Mans GTO". Go back and check my original post on the "Jury". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe because in your original post, you claimed that the Endura front end was an option on the GTO, and you used the "Jury" to support your claim. You know I'm right. Admit it. You'll feel better.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>> Thank you. I've worked hard to attain that lofty status. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope you're proud of your status...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>>> Many times, because I don't consider the GM Monaro to be a GTO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your opinion is duly noted, but not considered a valid one IMO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:>>> Well, with all the feedback I've had on this subject I'm starting to think maybe I should hit it with a buffer, armourall the vinyl top and do just that. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe if you actually drove it, it might improve your disposition...

It may be below freezing here today, but it's clear and sunny right now and there isn't any snow yet. I might just have to warm up the cars and shred some tires today for the last time this year!!!

red70goat · #**300** 12-15-2004, 08:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by red70goat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mr_GTO:
Right, so no GTO or any RWD car for Pontiac for 5 years would have been ok with you uh? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have rather waited until they got it right then compromise. Unless Pontiac does start over with a clean sheet I seriously doubt we'll see a GTO in 2007. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

it has been long known that Pontiac and Holden are working on a brand new car and a brand new chasis that will be built here. And it will be in showrooms in Sept. 2006 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's hope so. I've heard the same thing and some of the renderings I've seen aren't that much different than what is being produced now. The '05 is getting about the same amount of media attention the 04 got, maybe even less.I still maintain that if Pontiac doesn't make some changes by starting with a clean sheet, which means leaving Holden out of it all together, then the GTO will be scrapped due to lack of sales. I personally do not want to see that happen.